Episode 066 - Ian Dallimore, How will data privacy and consent impact OOH?

Welcome everybody to the out-of-home insider show, a podcast like no other hosted by the one and only Tim Rowe.

You ready to have some knowledge dropped on. You went to be entertained because nothing is more valuable than food for your brain. So sit back, relax. We're about to dive in as the best industry podcast is the bathroom.

And we're recording Mr. Dalmore. Welcome back. Thanks for having me. Great to see you. My friend, very good. The all time, most downloaded episode was the last time we talked and I have a feeling that this one is going to be just as popular. If not more. What's what's new. What's new in your world since we talked last.

Yeah. Everything, you know, it's good. It's uh, Moving about, I, you know, like to use my real life as a litmus test of what the local markets look like, and it, you know, at the end of the day, it's sure we have the issues in New York, LA, Chicago with lockdowns and that sort of thing. But, um, this past weekend, for example, my son had a baseball tournament.

Pretty fun. We was the top 20 teams in the country for nine-year-olds, which is super relevant and absolutely ridiculous. Is that on draft Kings? Can we do, are we drafting fantasy? Nine-year-olds probably can book a, hit a bookie to start looking at it. Um, but you know, you, you start to look at the litmus test of your life.

Like, Hey, what am I doing? Um, and what is, what is the rest of America doing? Um, I think oftentimes, and I get it. If I was in their shoes, there's buyers looking at. Well, I'm sitting in my apartment, my kids haven't gone to school in 12 months. Um, but the reality of it is, is most of America. And I say this, uh, not being pompous or anything, but being safe, you know, we're all wearing masks where we're doing the right things, but our lives are a little bit different as a commuter.

Um, but so my son's entire team, we actually drove to Houston. Um, we're at the ballpark, stayed at this resort, tons of people moving out about safely again, but, um, you know, it proves to me and I actually try to grab a shot as I was driving into Houston. And, you know, when, when you read these articles and people are like, oh, traffic, isn't back.

You know, people aren't on the road. We literally sat on I 10 for 40 minutes. Like you were in LA on the, you know, the 10 or the, uh, 4 0 1 freeway. I mean, it was, and as an out-of-home guy, it's exciting. Um, so yeah. Hey actually, if I could tell this cool story, cause I know I'm the, I'm the digital guy. Um, and I visual guy for Lamar and that's kind of my passion.

But, you know, again, back to my son, they're traveling and there are any leap teams. So I wanted to do something kind of cool. So I was talking to good buddy, my counterpart, um, Andy street over at out front, of course he said, man, where are you up to this weekend? I said, I'm headed to Houston. It's like, oh, that's cool.

And he goes, man, let me put you in touch with our, our guy out there. And I was like, you don't have to do that. I said, you know, we're putting a digital board up in Baton Rouge. This is on Thursday at three, the timeline's imperative here. Three o'clock. He gets me in touch with the guy at when, when are you leaving?

I'm leaving Friday. Right. So yeah, we're, we're in the window. Yeah, we're in the window, but you know, digital. So I shoot it to our local guy. We put it up on our digital on the way out of  that's going to be plenty enough, but you know, again, what I love about our industry is that, you know, next thing you know, the guys at clear channel throw up digital.

Welcoming our kids, as they enter into Houston, super cool collaboration, much respected and much appreciated. But the out-front guy in Houston, he was like, man, he said, where are you staying? I told them to more an hotel. A couple of teams are staying there that are in our, our affiliated. And he's like, perfect.

I have a billboard, like right when you're in the lobby, checking in it's to the right. Come on. And for those show notes, I'll send you the picture of it. So I said, perfect. I said, really, you don't have to worry about it. He's like, no, no, no, no. Let me send you the specs. So I shoot it back over to him and he's like, oh, I'm so sorry.

It's static. So immediately in my mind, I'm like, dude, you've done too much. He's like, no, no, no, no. He's like, he's like, don't, aren't you buddies with rod Rackley at social graphics who he's. Used to work at far and amazing guy. And he's the best. So now rod is like, we're making this happen. So timeline. So timeline is four 15.

At this point, my creative team is phenomenal. They knock out the specs for it and I'm, I'm so gracious. I'm like, these are, nine-year-olds like, don't worry about it. We got enough digital. They're going to be excited, Tim. Rod's like, no, we're doing this. So rod circle graphics, we email him. It's like four 15 or 4 45.

He gets the email by 3:00 AM. Friday morning. It's overnighted gets to Houston at like seven something before we're halfway driving to Houston. It's a four hour from Baton Rouge. My buddy, my new friend at Outfront. It's like, Hey man, my installers is not. 10 minutes later, one of the dads that flu is taking a picture of it in the lobby.

So me being 15 years in the industry and mostly focused and passionate about digital out of home, I'm here to say static is not dead. Um, my old boss here, John Miller, our EVP of sales and marketing said it best yesterday. He said, dude, this, all this is about is if you have the will and. Static you perform just as fast as digital.

So less than 12 hours, these little nine year olds were like, this is the greatest thing ever. And I'm like, you guys have no idea what we just pulled off. And I tried to tell it to the parents. Okay. Yeah, that's great. I, uh, repaired an ACL and the other guy's like, yeah, I just did heart surgery and flew in here before this y'all just landed.

The, the, the FA the Falcon rocket on a boat in the ocean. And we're like, nah, that's nothing. That's amazing. And what a cool opportunity for the kids. And. That's the power out of home. Right? It's like the things that, the way it makes you feel. And I'm thinking about that scene in the movie little giants from when we were kids, when they'll take the, what was it Pepcid and they're foaming at the mouth.

Like that's probably pretty good for psyching out the other teams in the tournament too. Definitely. Without a doubt. Well, we had, we had digital as these teams are flying in from all over the country, California, New York, and you know, again, good forensic clear channel. Hooked it up to where as they were driving in, it said, good luck, traction Cain's black.

And that throws a little intimidation factor for sure. Had to have young kids fired up about. And not like about Snapchat and Tik TOK, totally out of homes, the future for the, for that little generation, that's it, it starts, it starts here. It starts now. And really like for digital to be effective, we need static to exist.

Absolutely. It gives it, it makes everything worth looking at well. And I think if you've, if you do it right, you know, if you're targeting a very niche demographic, Then yes, you need to use programmatic, do an impression based buy the omni-channel approach, mobile social online now, digital out of home, whether it's place-based large format, but then sprinkle and static inventory.

Maybe you can't get certain coverage or, and, or be able to tell a broader message or a larger, broad branding message across the entire, uh, demographic that's T you're spot on. I mean, you have to have both. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about targeting and social and all these things. Cause there's been a lot in the news about apple and Facebook and Google and data consent and states are enforcing their own laws around these things.

There's a lot of changes coming. And we're seeing some of them already, the Facebook feedback loop being cut from 28 to 28 days to 24 hours. Do you think that that's an opportunity for out of home? Yeah. Um, and I've had this conversation with quite a few people where they were on both sides of a camp.

Like this is going to be detrimental for everything that we've been pushing the last five years with, you know, anonymous device IDs. Um, and then you have the people that are on the other camp. They're like, this is our opportunity to sell against, um, how there's going to be less impressions, less of a, uh, Specific one-to-one message is going to be more broad.

And I kind of fall a little bit in the middle there. I think, as it look what Google's doing, and maybe you can describe it a little bit more, um, exactly what's happening, but what, what Google's doing it's and what apple is doing. It's. Um, Google had to do it because apple, apple installed that concept. And all they're doing is building a walled garden of their inventory.

Now it's up to, and I read a great article this morning from, um, a new partner of ours at Keval. The CEO, when he, he basically mentioned like, if enough, if enough of the independence, like the trade desk, um, and those folks come together. And can go against Google, Facebook, apple, Amazon. It's going to be a tough fight, but if there's enough little countries that come together and form an army against the one big one that really hasn't had to fight ever, this could be interesting.

But I think for the industry, we shouldn't be so silly and naive to be like, oh, we're going to sell against. That's the same thing. Facebook did a year back where they were like, we're going to cut budgets. That was Procter and gamble his way of saying. Hey, we have to cut budgets. This is great PR for us, it was cute.

It was cute. But guess what? They're still spending billions of dollars in the social space. Sure. Right? Like we, we need all of the things to exist. It is harmonious and synergistic and all things that work together. And that's, that's the beauty, right? Is that online? Offline synergy. So it's, it's the opportunity for out a home of how do we make the online stuff work better in a way that like, We can measure and maybe get away from direct attribution and just get back to good marketing.

Like, Hey, if you have a relevant message and you're on target with the audience that is likely to care about it, and you're creative and business don't suck like prob probably gonna have some degree of success. Well, and I think the other thing that happens is you don't have. Yes. You may not have enough sample size, a large enough sample size, but these companies aren't going to go away.

Um, you know, I was talking to the data team at Vistar and they were having that conversation. I said, well, what, you know, what were the effects in the UK? And, you know, with GDPR? And they said, yeah, it was, it was, it hurt for a couple of months. And a few things happened, the ability. You know, you've found other ways to find unique audiences.

Uh, but more importantly, which I think is the benefit of out of home through this whole process is the number of, uh, anonymous device IDs now become more relevant. And in the process, there may be a smaller sample size. Like we work with M four on a lot of, uh, survey based attribution campaigns. There may be less.

Um, but as long as the scale is still there for a representation of the population. That that device ID becomes even more rich than it ever has before. And it's more valuable and is looked at as more valuable in the online world and social now, and definitely when we're using it for measurement. But, but again, this is purely a, in my opinion, a walled garden play by the big data companies.

Um, to just squeeze out those little guys, apple, I'm still convinced because I'm an apple Mac guy. I'm still convinced that they're doing this because they truly care about the privacy of the consumer. And they just want this like pure experience. Yeah. And I think that that's, we're just kind of at the starting stages of what is going to be a revolution like data consent is the next major social revolution.

And we're just at the beginning, right. The problem has been identified and there's going to be some negotiations along the way between us, the people, and then technology companies that use the data. I think it ultimately. To a place where it's going to be like, it's like fair trade coffee, right. Are you using data that has consent or not?

Right. And like, that's a part of your brand strategy. How do you respect data inside of the mix? And I think what's so interesting for out of home. Our conversation becomes that much more powerful because everything that we do is based on real world behavior, right? The audience, the movement in the real world, they're going to places and spending money, right?

You drove to Houston with an intent to participate. In this event. You spent money at places, right? That movement is now the behavior. And as maybe probabilistic and deterministic targeting online starts to evaporate or change. Behavior in the real world isn't going to change unless we change. Uh, you know, I dunno.

So th that's an interesting point, right? If you would, that statement, does the internet become more cleaned up with more relevant or powerful ads? Yeah, I think so. I think we say this all the time at Lamar, when we're talking programmatic to DSPs and SSPs and digital native agencies is we compare ourselves to, you know, YouTube and Instagram.

Yeah, like we're, that's where we are. We're a premier product, a limited product. And I I'm I'm with you. I hope the internet does get cleaned up. I wouldn't mind clicking on some like great ads I'm looking over here and the ads that are popping up on this article, I'm reading. I have no idea. And granted, you know, us advertising people, our Google search history is just bananas, but if I saw some pretty powerful ads, I just start clicking on a more, but if it's just, it's just unbelievable.

I don't know why I have these ads. It's crazy. That's interesting. Now you got me thinking like once the last time I clicked on an ad online and. Uh, like I stop and watch videos. I watched, I watched stuff, but get it right. Get getting you to take actions a different thing. And if we kind of reverse engineer that based on the action, people are already taking to get them to take that action more often or to take a similar action.

Um, if we start thinking about things like how do we increase lifetime value, or how do we, how do we use that movement in a similar context to of Facebook and like, all right here where your best customers are coming from. Right. You want to get more of them? Okay. Well, that's like a custom audience in Facebook, right?

Or do you want to get more customers like them? Right. And that would be like a lookalike concept and being able to have that conversation. Without a home and, and obviously, you know, on a CPM basis compared to a, uh, a display ad or some pre-roll, we win that fight every time. Yeah. And I, and I really, I truly believe this.

I know, you know, Lamar we've been doing programmatic for almost eight years now. And most of the industry for the past four has just began to flourish, but we're still so much in the infancy, the conversations that I'm having with brands about programmatic and just about out of home in general, they're like, this is, this is a unique space.

Um, and I think as we continue to do. To morph our data partnerships and our data sets. That looks a lot like what they're doing in the online space. This has nothing to do with, Hey, I want to buy online because it's better than out of home. Oftentimes in that, that may be the case for somebody, but oftentimes it's, it's purely like, Hey, I'd love to buy out of home, but.

The data's not apples to apples and I can't come in and, and that's what programmatic has done is the use of, of better data, relevant data that they're used to. And they, they feel comfortable using. Um, and, and yeah, the, uh, as the one-to-one begins to go away and it's more one to target it, then, then you're spot on our, our, our value prop is the exact same with geo path data.

Or whatever other data set you layer on. We began to say like, yes, we can target, uh, a baseball enthusiast mom with three plus kids that, um, you know, has an affinity towards Nike and visits Nike's baseball site. Then we can have that apples to apples conversation. So I'm excited about what's happening and I'm excited from a creative brand creative brain type person that hopefully the internet gets clean.

Yeah. I, I think that too, right? Like. When we are able to get that adoption at scale from non-participants, there's such brilliant creative minds. Who've never played with the canvas of at-home before we're going to see some magnificent campaigns come to life. Right. Agreed. Yeah. And that's good, right? Like that's good for it.

It's perfect for out of home. And I, and I think, you know, one of the things that we're kind of toying around with, and, and, and I had the pleasure of kind of leading this while it's been like 12 years now, where we introduce mobile and out-of-home, and kind of played with like, Hey, what does mobile? And out-of-home look like, and I'll never forget the first campaign we did with, uh, blue byte and with Miquel Damiani, his team.

And it was with, uh, kind of snack bars basically just said, okay, When a consumer device ID is exposed to a billboard. If they go to a health store and we laid out a handful of the health disorders, you and your listeners to know the process, but that was kind of like groundbreaking, like, sure. This will be interesting if this happens now, it's like every rep in the country.

That's how they're selling. So now we're playing with the idea of like, all right, CTV has exploded. What does it look like? Cause I can get the, I AM's and, and play with that. And how have it pass over? What does it look like for a device ID that's exposed to out of home and then watches and is exposed to a CTV ad or vice versa.

And what does that universe look like? It may be, as I always tell my team, it may be the craziest dumbest idea. Or it may be another opportunity that gets out of home to be part of the conversation in an omni-channel media mix. And right now that CTV media mix on its own is killing it. So why not test and try it and again, using the same data and test it.

We'll see what happens, but I think that's the luxury we have. And, and why we've done so much better than radio, TV, and newspaper through this is because we've had a lot of people in our industry that have just taken chances and played with those, those concepts and ideas. I think it makes a ton of sense and something we're working on at one screen is we're working with the data science team at Northeastern university to put proper academic data science case studies together for exactly the things that you're talking about because like those new learnings are good.

Four out of home, right? It's, it's good for us to prove how the two work together and the conversation that we're having with a lot of advertisers is around. We want to own our audience from jump street from the day that they first come in contact with us on a big billboard to the time that they buy something online.

We want to own that audience so that we are not subjected to apple, to Google, right? Like if everyone's going to build their own walled garden, then we need to build our own walled gardens. Biggest most robust, cleanest database that we possibly can. Yeah. And I think a lot of the SSPs out there, like, you know, this, our place exchange high stack Broadstein the ad-on needs on the DSP side, um, uh, created our buddy.

Craig loved that guy by the way. He is literally the epitome of people that are like, uh, we check out out of home and now he's the biggest, like. Proponent. Cheers. Yeah. So that proves you have someone that was in that, you know, Adelphic via world where it was just churning. And now it's like, let me peek on this side.

And now he's, and I know the show's a big fan of his, and he's become a great friend, but it's people like that that have kind of played with the idea, um, of what is, what does it look like it, and I'll say this. So, cause I know a lot of your listeners are local local focus, right? And maybe not even in the out-of-home space, the most difficult thing that we have on the data side.

This may throw a wrench in it. On the scale side, when you start to scale down to smaller markets, we may have an issue, um, with data, but I think that'll be fixed. The biggest issue is, is if I'm a local advertiser and I, you know, my friend owns an F 45 here and he wants to buy a billboard and he wants to layer in a measurement campaign.

Oftentimes the measurement costs more than the billboard. And so that's a challenge that I throw out to, you know, all the data partners that are out there, because if you're a local rep and even the national people struggle with this, but if you're a local rep and you're buying a $10,000 out-of-home campaign for four weeks, And data company, XYZ charges 15,000 for like a survey.

You're like, wait what? So I'm paying 25,000, I'm paying 5,000 more over the media costs for you to, for me to verify that this actually worked like that. Doesn't that doesn't help. Yeah, I know. I know there's some people out there, but that that's our biggest hurdle in order to scale this thing. Um, you know, Lamar is 80% local, 20% national.

And I can promise you the bulk of our local clients, EY, don't really care that much about measurement and data and attribution. If it's going to cost more than it's out of home campaign. Sure. And maybe touch on that for a second, just to give us like a local state of the state. Obviously small business has gotten really impacted over the last year.

How are you seeing the local markets come back? What's the feedback been like? Yeah, you know, it's um, and I applaud our company. I applaud our CEO and our executive team for day one when COVID hit and Tommy teach people, who's a legend is our, uh, our CMO and he's day one. He started producing these videos and we're, we're really big and always have been for the last few years on communication internally with videos, whether it's in inspiring.

Case studies walking through, you know, how to perform and do things. We have an amazing sales operations team that, that walks people through, uh, different roll-outs. But I think why we were successful and so quickly is because the relationships, um, yeah, that's the biggest fear that anytime technology comes out a new platform, it's like, oh, I'm going to lose this relationship.

The relationships for us at the local level. Are imperative, but it's almost like it's a, it's a, it's a no brainer. Um, because these people go to church, their kids play on the same baseball team. They see each other at the grocery stores. They actually play tennis together outside of being business partners.

So it's much different than the national side. So my point is, is the first video we came out with as a company when COVID hit. And we knew it was going to have a big impact. Was. Billboards aside, how are you? How's your family? How's the business, what's your strategy? What can I do to help you? And when we say what's the strategy, it wasn't like, oh, cool.

Let me sell you some billboards. Yeah, it was that's irrelevant right now. I want to make sure you as a human are good. And I would, I would say not to get like philosophical or anything, but I would say that I hope the one thing that isn't lost through all of this. Is the personal relationships, because that is what has helped Lamar come out of this so quick is it's not like we're calling someone and they're sending these massive spreadsheets and requesting it.

They're literally knitted in the community that, you know, this po'boy shop. If it goes under, it affects that plant that every day, that's where they eat lunch. And that person that owns a po'boy shop also supports a little league baseball team by sponsoring them. And they also buy an ad in the church bulletin and oh, by the way, their mom runs the, you know, the girl scout troop.

So it's much bigger than just a billboard. And I think that was the approach that Lamar has taken. And that's why I love this company so much. And I know there's a lot of other companies that are out there as well, but. Our culture is what makes us, and this wasn't our first, you know, pandemic slash, um, crisis financial crisis.

We've been around for a hundred, 18 years. So we've done this quite a few times. And every time that's been the directive, like, Hey, we're just good humans. We're good people. And that may sound cheesy. And you know, you may talk to sales experts and they're like, oh, that's not it. You should have hit them with ads and, and you should have forced them to buy billboard.

No. And the other thing that we did that helped us was, is we're flexible. And we, you know, um, Brian Rappaport at qualm, I know he talks about this all the time is the. Now has to pivot and become flexible. So I think it's, it's helped escalate a lot of things. A lot of projects that we had that were a few years out are now like, alright, we need to have the ability where we have a lamar.com that you can buy and we need to change contract terms.

So now that's my long-winded way of saying local is chicken asset at Lamar, bigger than the. That's a, I think that's a, that's a, that's a great campaign. You said it, I'm just giving it back to you. We just wrapped up bigger than a billboard. That's the, that's the campaign, uh, that, that, that maybe summarizes all of this, you know, it's interesting when we think about the technology too, right?

We've seen that people get freaked out by technology. The technology just allows you to focus. More on the relationship. Yes. Technology takes away all of the stuff that you're doing repetitively, right? Like that's what technology is supposed to do. Is it, are you seeing, are you seeing more of that embrace now kind of post COVID or 118 years, obviously you guys have been leading the way and doing things right.

You don't just accidentally exist for 118 years, but how do you, how do you see that the technology. Yeah, I looked the changes. Um, change is difficult for some people and it, you know, even internally here, it's definitely a difficult conversation where, you know, for the past, however many years that local GM has controlled its inventory.

And now we're saying, well, platforms and systems are going to help you sell it. And sometimes you may not even know that it's being sold because it's programmatic or, um, where we're moving towards. I you're spot on. I mean, As a local AAE or a national AAE. I see a lot of these poster scopes building out ECOS talents, building out its platform, had a great call with a handful of others yesterday that are building out their platform.

Um, it just speeds up the Monday. Hey, what do you have in these three DMS? And then we have to go into the system and then we'd go over here. And then we put in a pretty bow, pretty Bobi and Excel spreadsheet, which isn't pretty. And then we hand it back off when the reality of it is it just requested that same market audience timing for another client.

So we've sped up that process and I applaud the, uh, the out-of-home specialist side on the traditional side of business because they're realizing. We need to be more collaborative. And I think that to answer your question, that's what it does is it allows local, regional, national AEs to get behind different behind the spreadsheet, get from behind the computer and do this for now and in person and just whiteboard brainstorm like, Hey, you're a, a barbecue shop.

Um, and we have some great bus shelter. Let's we actually have this company that we met a few weeks ago and they have these sent flavors. Maybe we can match your barbecue smell and have steam coming out of the bus shelter. Freak out the fire department PR stuff. But so, so here we are you and I just randomly now brainstorming a local barbecue shop idea.

We're in the past, it was like, let me go see if it's available. Let me do all this. And meanwhile, that local barbecue shop. Bro. I just went on Facebook while you were checking with your GM and bought my target audience. And I bought some Instagram ads. Oh. And I just uploaded this, um, you know, Instagram story and YouTube story of the guys cooking barbecue in the back.

So I'm straight. So you see what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of wasted time. Yeah. So I, and those elaboration of creativity, that's huge for our space. Not. Big bold and creative. Is that any big, bold and creative predictions for 2021 that you want to make on the record? Um, from a personal perspective, I, I hope that people, I had mentioned that I hope people.

Continue with genuine relationships. I hope people really take the time to get to know people and, and kind of take a step back and take a breath. Um, as a health conscious person, I hope people start taking care of their bodies and take care of themselves. Like that's key both mentally and physically, um, and, and the out-of-home space.

I think, I think we prove our resilience. I think you're going to see. Changes. You're going to see some big tech companies continue to be intrigued by our space. And we, as an industry need to be inviting. I think we're set up for the next five to 10 years to just continue to sprint and run. Um, I'm very excited about the new leadership at the AAA with autobiography and what she's been doing.

And you know, my good friend Chrissy, Radigan now the CFO there, um, a lot of great committees that are really focused on. How do we educate the industry on these tech scary things? Um, so embrace technology, but educate yourself. Um, we're spending a lot of time educating our internal folks on things that they may not ever sell.

They may not ever sell programmatic at the local level. But they will be so sharp on, Hey, I know what a DSP is. I know what an evergreen deal is compared to a PNP to where they sound knowledgeable enough again, during that brainstorm to where they don't lose that client. Um, so again, continued success. Um, more podcasts.

Love that outcast. Yeah. Love, love, love that. And I love seeing more. It looks like there's more. People approaching out of home from a content standpoint, which is just wildly exciting, a rising tide floats all boats. Look, Hey, in the last one, I'll say, um, without saying too much B be nice to new people that are in this space and look, Tim you're, you're a newer person, his face.

I, I hate the fact that now I'm like the old guy, um, are almost there. I am a new as the kids say, but look, I think what you've done broken down barriers and people like, ah, who's this guy, you know, he doesn't have experience in this space and who's this woman, you know, she's worked in online. And what does she know about billboards?

Guess what. Educate you educate these people and get them excited. No, one's saying that about you by the way, but embrace new people into this space. And, um, we may learn a finger to, and, or they may be a fly by night and at least we were a good human and we taught them something nice. You left him a good impression.

That's what out of home does, right? It leaves an impression. And that's why I started the podcast in the first place was to learn. I figured I don't know anything about this industry. I don't know anyone in it. But if I can like maybe talk to the smartest people in it, then I'm probably going to learn a lot faster.

So, uh, yeah, the out of home has been great to me. And I appreciate that. And look forward to that. I think I found myself, um, begging you like, Hey, can I get on your back? It's not, it's not true. It's not true. I didn't make it. We definitely won't we won't wait long. Let's do this again soon as, uh, as things open up here and we get into the summer months, I'm sure we're going to have some fun campaigns to talk about.

Absolutely. Thanks Tim. Take care. We'll see you soon. All right. All right. Make sure you smash the subscribe button down below. Check the show notes for the pictures of Ian son's baseball campaign and on how to get in touch with Ian and learn more about Lamar, Ian. Thanks so much for being here. Cool.