Episode 067 - Amanda Dorenberg on the Power of Static OOH In The Digital World

Welcome everybody to the out-of-home insider show, a podcast like no other hosted by the one and only Tim Rowe.

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Welcome to out-of-home insider the loudest voice in out of home. It's funny. A lot of people stop and ask me, they say, Tim, what's that mean? What does it mean to be the loudest voice in out of home? A lot of folks assume it has something to do with being louder than other industry trade coverage. It actually has nothing to do with anyone.

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Let's go welcome everybody to the out-of-home insider show, a podcast like no other hosted by the one and only Tim Rowe.

You ready to have some knowledge dropped on. You went to be entertained because nothing's more valuable than food for your brain. So sit back, relax. We're about to dive in as the best industry podcast is the bathroom again.

How, how did you get it now? The comb specifically or into like out of home? Uh, our home. It's a weird, it's a weird story. I graduated high school when I was 16, I went to college immediately for computer programming and systems analysis. But at the same time, I was a fashion model. So I was traveling like around the world, internationally, blah, blah, blah.

And I got to see a really cool side of the advertising space, like how campaigns are created. And so that really intrigued me and I decided to go back to school for, um, a bachelor's degree in marketing media and communications. And so I went, I did that when I was 18 and I graduated when I was almost 21.

Um, and then I was still modeling and then I opened my own agency that was like artists representation. So I wrapped photographers and models and place them overseas and like stylists really cool space. Um, and then I ended up having brain surgery. Wow. Uh, so I closed my agency and decided I needed something a little more stable than like my own business.

So I got my first gig in the advertising space, um, on a contract gig with a post. Which is a big sort of traditional media platform. And in the Canadian space, you know, it's, it's print newspapers at the time. They had a little bit of a digital presence, but not much. And my role was like innovations and tech.

So it was like, you know, bringing in. Augmented reality into like print production. So I kind of fell in love with like that whole disrupting the traditional space. And then I, I left that contract. I did PR for famous fashion designer who dresses like Angelina Jolie and a bunch of stuff. And I hated that.

So I was like, okay, I don't want to do this. And I found my way to tighten out door. Which at the time was global, they had, um, UK inventory, they had tons of us inventory and Canadian info inventory. And I started there as their director of marketing and quickly took over their it infrastructure because they didn't have anybody in Canada, um, handling.

And then about six months into that role, heightened decided to sell the Canadian assets, um, of the company. And they were acquired by a private equity firm and the 10% portion of the Canadian, uh, general manager of tight-knit. And so that forms, um, a new startup in the out-of-home space acquiring those assets.

And I did all of the full, like end to end brand development, literally designed the logo, created everything from scratch, and also at the same time built their it infrastructure broke them off of the parent company. Did all of their data integrity. Migrations. We did a fully customized instance of Salesforce.

So end to end it ran everything from lead gen to sales cycle, profitability, profitability, production installation, real estate management. So anything that. Hit government relations or installation, construction management of new assets right through to finance. So it was like a feud product that took about like two and a half years to really flush out and build.

And then when we were done that, um, it was only me. And then I got to hire like one marketing person and one it person to help during that transition. And then once we had completed that we. I moved to more focusing on like how to integrate new technology. So this at the time was now like eight years ago.

And so we were the first in Canada to launch like a mobile and static out of home murals, specifically. Um, cross-media integration. So we were like geo-fencing, um, static murals, and then we would retarget the mobile, uh, via mobile in app. And then that company was acquired by bell media, which is big. And then I moved to a pure play digital out of home company, which was basically like, just rinse and repeat.

I did all of the same things over again. Um, but here I actually got more into like the consumer analytics. We built a first to market. Uh, we called it an audience intelligence platform, which basically was a direct competitor to comb because comb was like not doing anything relevant at the time. So we just said, screw it.

We're just going to do our own thing. Um, so we partnered with cellular carriers. Um, this company called Celent, we ingested their data from, uh, Uh, direct. So we ingested CRM and tower data, and then we parse that with mobile application data and, uh, road segmentation data. So everything was directional. We knew traffic flow information.

Um, and so we made a huge foster in the, in the marketplace when we publicly launched that. And I think it was like 10 months later, we were acquired by Outfront. Um, and then I stayed at out front for a year and. Required amount of time, let's say as the, an executive in their tech and marketing department.

So I ran all things. Marketing had creative, um, full marketing team across Canada, uh, uh, sales, digital ad ops and development that reported into me creative as well. Um, and. And went into executive consulting for blockchain and machine learning because I wanted to change things up and Satterley. And that was really cool.

We built SAF. I worked, um, the company that we formed was called Centra. So it was an executive consulting firm that basically we took a, um, we would partner with both like fortune 500 companies. We did a ton of work with Deloitte and a few others, but, um, our bread and butter from a financial standpoint.

Outside of Deloitte acquiring a bunch of our products was, um, the startup space. So we would partner with like a bunch of cool new. Blockchain and web 3.0 AI machine learning companies that wanted that basically just didn't know how to make a business. They have great idea. They were looking for funding.

Um, and we would take a small equity stake in their company. So less than 15% equity stake for a certain investment amount. And then we would insert ourselves in as the executive team for a period of time to build the current. Until such time, we felt it was appropriate for us to leave. And then we still maintain that exec, uh, that ownership, stake.

Um, it was a really cool business model because we got to like, I mean, we built, uh, in six months we built for one company, a fully decentralized cryptocurrency marketplace and tokenization exchange, a suite of crypto wallets. And it was just like, it was acquired by some global blockchain company I'd never heard of, but I was like, this is cool.

And then during that time, I was also a consultant and advisor and a board member for this really cool out of home company. Um, disruptive out-of-home company called front on our technologies and still an advisor and a shareholder. And, um, and they approached me when I was at Sentras, uh, more for like the data and analytics side of.

They didn't really understand how to apply data to their very fluid, um, inventory. And, um, but their business model was a bridge of prop tech versus ad tech. Um, so they partnered with, um, Major commercial brokerage firms across north America. So JLL, Cushman, Wakefield, CVRE, like all of the big ones and they would gain access to the vacant street-level storefronts.

Um, so unoccupied spaces and we created a proprietary tech to deploy and turn the glass window fronts into real-time content and advertising. So now imagine during a pandemic they're doing quite well because there's a ton of vacant inventory everywhere, literally everywhere. And then while I was doing that, the board of comb in June of last year, um, approached me and said, Hey, you know, the.

Has it been as retiring? Would you be interested in this? And my first reaction was no dinosaur. Thank you. But no. Um, and anyways, there was a back and forth courtship of about six to six plus month, at least. Where, you know, they were trying to convince me that they want to change within the organization.

And I was kind of saying like, how, how much change are you ready for? Because like, I, I'm not somebody who's going to sit stagnant and you want me to commit to a certain amount of time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, here I am. We worked it out. Okay. Yeah, it's been surprisingly fun so far. So you touched on something that it seems kind of reminiscent of a moment in time that out of home is going through sort of the last couple of weeks here where you were someplace that.

Colm was supposed to solve for a certain thing. Right. And then you build a competing solution for that to just outmaneuver them because it was slow and a dinosaur not moving fast enough. How do you, how do you interpret them? Some of the changes that are coming out. Oh, AAA's talking about the opportunity to see, it seems like there's a bit of a global initiative to align out of home measurement based on your experience.

You've seen it from both sides. And obviously now you're, you're leading comb through this, uh, this development. How do you think that this all shakes out? What are, what should we be paying attention to as an industry? The us is really interesting. Um, and I say that with all kindness to my, to my cohorts, Anna and Kim, you know, I know them both very, very well.

I think that there probably needs to be more. Collaborations between the two, it seems to be very competitive. Um, and I'm not here to say who who's the one driving the competition or, cause I wouldn't know. Um, but it definitely seems to be very political and very competitive and it's kind of like a race to like fame almost like I was the one who did this versus that.

Elaboration of like, this is going to drive the industry forward. Right. It's very different in the Canadian space, like our members and maybe it's because we're both marketing and measurement. Yeah. Talk to talk to me about the structure of calm, maybe how it's different than, um, you know, just a geo path or a no trip.

Like what is the unique value that that comb brings? Yeah. So comb is, uh, is pretty much take geo pass and old AAA and put them into. Organization. And that's what we do. We do both measurement and marketing the best part about combining the two and having them under one sort of umbrella is that they do really go hand in hand.

The advancements in measurement require advancements in marketing and vice versa. The advancements of marketing require advancements and measurement. So if you're standalone organizations and you have no control over one or the other, it's very difficult. As an industry, push that forward and drive that holistic voice like here in Canada, you know, we've got the ability to contact forums and curate articles with Forbes who talk about all of the measurement initiatives that we're doing.

That also that helps on our marketing side. Whereas it's a bit of a different beast. You know, the measurement organization isn't really meant to be doing marketing. So they're just meant to like push out the measurement and communicate that and educate that. But on the flip side, you know, the old AAA also has to market and educate in the same capacity or in a different capacity to try to drive revenues and increase the piece of the pie, basically.

So it's really two separate bodies. Whereas here it's, it's much easier to have that holistic collaboration because we are. One in the same, doing both. We have two separate departments, obviously that handle both, but they're constantly talking, you know, we're launching some really new. Uh, really cool new initiatives for COVID specifically.

Um, cause here we're constantly under lockdown. Yeah. Right. Well, things are opening up here. Domestically things are still a little bit tight there. So how has, how has COVID changed the way that Colm interacts with its members? How has it changed maybe the direction of comb, uh, T talk to me a little bit about what the last years looked like, and maybe something you learned along the way that you never thought it was.

Um, COVID has been very challenging for sure. Uh, one of the things that, um, I mean, coming in, you know, at the end of 2020, like I joined in November, I couldn't really do much until January. Um, I, I saw very quickly the need for relevant data and insights, and we didn't have that readily available. Uh, so it was one of the first initiatives that I had sort of embarked upon in saying.

We need to pay board members. We need to put out some compelling insights. We need to ensure that, you know, we've got granular information. That's not just at a specific market level, but it's at a product level and a road segment level. So we understand the variants between me. West end Toronto versus east end Toronto or the CMA versus another CMA, uh, highway boards versus town versus rural boards have the same product type.

So that was the first initiative where we're launching that. Um, at the end of may for we'll be reporting all of Q1 and all of April, and then we'll do rolling monthly. Insights. Um, so that's been a big initiative. The one thing I've learned is there's like a terrible misconception of the advertising that the buy-side let's say.

So I don't know if it's at the agency level or if that's at the brand level specifically, but there seems to be like this misconception that okay. All of Ontario's in this stay at home order and no one's out. Because there may be living in the suburbs and they're not seeing the movements of urban downtown.

I live right downtown Toronto, and it's a disaster. Like it's a mess. There's traffic everywhere. You're in the office today. I'm here today and I can look outside. There's a construction site right beside me. You know, there's a grocery store. That's packed in my house, my condo, there's a park like at my doorstep that is just rammed with people all day long.

Skating rink. It's a rollerskating during the summer and a splash pad and you know, a hockey rink in the winter. It's, it's been rent. Like people are out, it's just this misconception of how people are out. There's like a conception that no one's leaving their home unless they're going to get groceries.

So I'm only going to advertise in grocery stores, which is totally not the case, what kid. Right. So, so then from the marketing side, um, putting a marketing cap on which I'm sure never comes off, what. Specifically can Canadian operators be doing differently to maybe dispel a little bit of that. Um, and I don't think that that's too different than what we're seeing here in the states is folks think that people aren't back to work.

They're not driving on the roads. We were like, people didn't just disappear. They're all there. They're still there. What can be done from a marketing standpoint, maybe from the local and from the corporate level. That you think should be done differently? I think that seems to be really consistent communication because there's fragmented communication and a sense of like, there's a report here.

There's an article here. Um, there also needs to be a really strong communications strategy behind it, like specifically in the Canadian market place at comb. Fraction from our local media outlet. So we've got this great, these great outlets. I should say, you know, media and Canada daily do that constantly pick up our content, but that's not really telling the broader story.

And that's really speaking mostly to the agencies. The big brand directs the CMOs, the directors of the brands that are actually the decision makers. Aren't really paying attention to. So the content strategy has to be definitely multifaceted in the sense that you're touching on local regional and national and international outlets, which is why we've done a huge job.

My, my new VP marcomms has done a great job in terms of. Us a voice in, in content. Like, you know, e-marketer was our, our cope co-moderator on our comb talks event last week, which was our first one. Um, and just like really pushing the envelope to getting us in these like major international outlets to speak about.

Out-of-home is still relevant. We did a piece. I wrote a piece for Forbes that launched last month. Nope. It launched this month. It launched early this month, early this month. Um, and it was talking about, you know, the relevance of static in the digital era, uh, which I think is, is something that we all need to be aware of.

It's not just about digital out of home and programmatic digital out-of-home, which I'm a huge advocate for, but static plays a large part in that sort of. Intrinsic ecosystem of, out of home, um, and the buzzwords, for sure, right now, particularly during a pandemic for convenience and, and, you know, ease of, of campaign adjustments, let's say programmatic is certainly key and it's going to be a key driver in our, our, um, return.

But, um, I think we can't lose sight of static and I think we'll see a resurgence of. Large format static, in my opinion, like the big, impactful classic out of home, uh, in the coming years. Right? Cause it's, it's the static that makes the digital worth looking at, like, if everything is just a screen, that's turning that's, that's very like blade runner.

That's very futuristic. Um, and then everything just becomes noise and there's nothing more beautiful than a, you know, great static execution. There's just so much you can, you can do with the context of. Absolutely. Right. And that's exciting. And especially now I think as we come into a period, uh, where we're, we're seeing a lot of brands get involved with that, a home that haven't traditionally used out of home and for creative marketers, it's the ultimate canvas, right?

Like if you had fun doing display ads, wait til you get your hands on a billboard. Right. There's so much more you can do. Do you think that the industry does enough to, to talk to creatives and, and really demonstrate the value of the format? No, the, I mean, the focus of media owners, not to a fault is obviously on sales, like it's it's revenue generation and ensuring, you know, the viability of their successful business with that.

Certainly they're speaking to create. Agencies. And, and there are some strategies for creative agency tours to present out of home as a format, best practices for design, whether it's static or digital design, you know, colors that work on digital that are sorry, that work on static, that don't work intentional, that type of thing.

Um, but I don't think that the. Uh, it's not a key driving, um, raining educational component. It is something that, uh, you know, comb will take on more as like part of the marketing side of things with respect to best practices and, and some of the educational components. Uh, that we're working on, but, um, I definitely think that there's great opportunity for communicating the value of creative because oftentimes clients are repurposing creative from online or from a print, uh, or from their TV spot.

And they're hoping it's going to look good in a foam. Like the TV spot doesn't have sound. So maybe you don't, you lose some of the context or the, you know, you're, you're printing. Only works on a vertical screen or poster test work on a horizontal. So there's a lot of different nuances with that. Okay.

Yeah. Right. And, and kind of pulling away from the data we've become so data and measurement focused and it's, it's easy to get excited about those things. Cause they're, they're tangible. Right. I can see a metric. I can see a chart that goes up into the. Um, and sometimes it's, it's hard to get excited about the things you can't measure and just trusting your gut and getting back to like, just being a good marketer, like trusting your instincts to do good marketing, and then using the data and measurement piece to.

Maybe construct a feedback loop around something that you haven't traditionally had a feedback loop to measure versus comparing it to, to, you know, some sort of online advertising or something like that. It be interesting to see, uh, maybe some exciting new ideas and executions I'll be looking forward to this summer.

Uh, cause I got to imagine there's a lot of brands with some pent-up pent-up dollars, expensive, fun ideas after being trapped inside good article. Well that said like the spring and summer is going to be the hub, the new holiday. See. Because of, I dig that as, um, as we're both wearing hoodies and like, I can look outside it's 75 and sunny, but all the time, save, save staple for me.

What about any do, does come to big conferences, obviously, AAA geo geo path have their annual conference. Is that, is that something that y'all do already? Is it something to look forward to in the future? I mean, again, like historically they've come, hadn't done much marketing. Um, but it is something we're definitely doing.

We were not planning like a massive conference, particularly during the virtual space, let's say so we launched cone talks, uh, last Tuesday. So that's going to be a quarterly, uh, virtual panel event. Um, And it's a bit different than your traditional panel event, because it's actually fueled by a survey data.

So we put out survey data prior to these events on the specific topic that we're looking to speak about. So in the case of our last, um, panel, we, it was brand direct. So we pushed out a survey to the top 100 spenders in. Uh, and we gauged the sentiment of how do you feel about out of calm during the pandemic?

Are you using it, not using it? What would you change from the sales side in order to encourage you to leverage out of home more during these times? Like, how do you feel about the flexibility? The, we asked literally everything our sales side wanted to ask a brand direct, but couldn't because they're dealing with an agency.

Um, so we pushed that out as a neutral body in a survey, and then we tailor our panel conversations surrounding those insights and then our follow-up Q and a for our newsletter. At the end of may, we'll touch on some of the questions we didn't speak about, uh, on the panel. We'll recap some certain questions, and then we'll also include additional.

Um, in the Q and a, uh, to have a bit more of a voice and we've solicited more questions from the sales side about, you know, Things that they would want to ask, but don't typically have the opportunity to ask. And so that's kind of the trend for comb talks is every one of our quarterly, um, call it panel or virtual events.

We're going to curate survey content to drive the conversation versus just having sort of a hot topic conversation. And then we're toying with the idea. It's w we're not set on it yet, but we're toying with the idea of like a biweekly fireside. Um, on a podcast kind of format where we just kind of like sit down.

I mean, we're having conversations like this every day, so why can't I post this in a podcast? You know, that's it just press record, put it on YouTube. Um, so we're toying with the concept of doing that under the comb talks umbrella. Um, and we've got Wu, do you know what the world out of home organization?

Yeah. Yeah. So I sit on there. Um, Global global associations and their research. Um, they're doing a global initiative for like standardization and research and methodology, similar to what the old AAA just put out, but globally, um, where the key associations that are working on measurements actually have the voice.

And here's what should be the sort of standard approach to how you look at different data sets. We're not saying this is the preferred data set. We're saying, if you use this dataset, maybe you should look at. Checklist of things. Um, And they're coming to, I mean, coming to Toronto in 2022, uh, hopefully in person, they were supposed to be here this year in person, but had to push a game, um, until 20, 22 due to COVID.

So we're working with them on that, that conference specifically. I don't know that we'll, we'll host like major events. I find sometimes like when you do too many events, you get lost in the crowd. And so even our last event, we didn't even announce it until a week before because I wanted it to be more organic and like a pop-up kind of thing.

And in a week we had 211 registered, registered, and like 190 showed up for it. Wow. I mean, everyone wishes. They could get like a show rate like that. That's awesome. It was huge. And I mean, I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that like, Combs never done this before. So it's like, oh, I want to see what they're actually doing.

Um, what I was, it was one of those things where I'm like, oh, okay. Maybe this like over-marketing and event like is too much. And we should just roll with this. Pop-up kind of scary, but we'll see how it progresses. We definitely have like aggressive plans. I like, I like aggressive marketing plans. These are the comb talks.

Is it exclusive to comb members? Are these publicly available now? Where can folks go to find that. Um, it's on our website, just calm.ca/talks. Um, and we'll link out to it below because that's a great resource. Um, w w what, because that's, that is such a hot button topic, right. Is agency direct, right? Like I have opinions from probably all of the sides.

Right. Um, What, what was, what was the surprising takeaway from that, that you saw? Um, it was, so it was like a conversation. I would say it was very organic. I mean, even though we had questions that like we curated based off of the survey content, you know, I was all who was my EMR. Um, he's the chief analyst for e-marketer Canada, uh, insider intelligence.

And he and I were sort of like messaging back and forth and I'm like, okay, we organically answered this question, skip to this one. You go to this question. Uh, so it was a very fluid conversation. I would say, you know, the key takeaways, there was a lot of talk about creative in, in that sense. Panel discussion, like a lot of talk about creative.

So we were, you know, we, when we spoke with Telus, they touched on how Telus uses their, their critters. They're very animal centric and everybody just, everyone visually knows when it's a Telus ad because it's so minimalistic. Clark white background with this big, bold, colorful critter of any species and a very cheeky tagline.

Uh, one of the things I really respected from. Uh, what he was saying specifically was about his, his focus on community during COVID. So they took the critters to the community, as we said, and they were, they were really focused on, you know, how to, how to encourage that community messaging. So they took more of that localized approach and then they're more national, like large impact was on, uh, just like brand recognition kind of thing, which I thought was really exciting.

The combined like the media formats. And then the other interesting component, I would say, came from, uh, Noah from ACE hill, which is a beverage company, alcoholic beverage company. And it was a cool dynamic because we had Rogers and Telus as these like large corporations. And then we had no. A skill has more of an independent, smaller scale-up.

I wouldn't call them a startup at this point. So I'm very, very well. Um, but he, he has an affinity to static, um, versus digital. So there was a good organic conversation. We got into talks about digital programmatic out-of-home and, and, you know, transitioned into, to digital or to, um, Noah with static and.

Again, brand creative came up. He was talking about how they leverage sort of their minimalist brand. And it's very high impact to a photo of the can. And it has this very recognizable, a logo. So quite interesting. It's cool to hear that, you know, right from the brand direct with that. Buy side, sell side relationship.

How do you, how do you envision, obviously, I don't know if we'll ever get to a place where everyone's just happy with each other, but I know it's a frustration for any agency to have the media company going direct. Hey, you were on my billboard. I can get you better rates. Um, there's certainly intrinsic value that agencies bring to this.

W what's the right mix. Like how, how do we get everybody to play nice together in the sandbox? And if not everybody. At least most of everybody, or if that's not possible, that's okay too. I think it's education like really a strong voice in the marketplace educating for the value of out of foam at the various different sort of touch points.

Again, it has to be done locally, regionally and nationally, as well as international. There's, there's gotta be a really strong voice in the marketplace that has the ability to compel both brands direct and major agencies to listen to what is being. Positions and to fuel that desire to be inquisitive and ask questions about, oh, okay.

Well, I didn't realize this. Let me come to you and get some more insights. Let's talk about this. Let's talk about, um, you know, these four points that you posted in this particular content piece. So I really think it's, it's really going to be. Education and communication. Um, you know, I'm, I'm respectful of the agency relationship.

Absolutely. The reason we went brand direct was we truly wanted to hear from the brands and we were actually hearing. Um, consistent feedback that the agencies were putting out of home on, on plans and it was going to the, um, the brands Iraq, then it would get cut off the plant. So that's why we actually decided to say, well, let's talk to the brand specifically and understand like, are you actually using out of home or is everyone just cutting out of home off the plans because you think that no one's outside of their house right now.

Um, so again, I think it's about insightful research and, um, really compelling thought leadership from a communications and marketing person. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. My man, Doug Cordova is from ramifies is probably over there like fist puppet. Cause it's, it's, it's a big pain point. He and I talked about, we've talked about it on the podcast.

We talk about it offline. Um, you know, sometimes there's agencies that just want to be difficult and not present things to the client, but like the value of the agency is that that is just that you get to present all the things. Hey, client pick what you want, right? Like, but I'm not, I'm not going to be the one who doesn't show you a thing and then you get a call and ask me, why didn't you ever show me the thing?

Cause it's really interesting. And I want to do it, right? Like you have complete, um, you know, like, I don't know what the right word is. There's a word. Somebody go back and put the word in, but you can, you, you can be that degree of separation as the agency where you're. You're not the proponent of it.

You're not fighting against it. You just get to show the client, all the cool things they can play with. Yeah. You have like full autonomy to give them the options. Basically. It's like, here's a buffet of options and here's my recommendation, which is fantastic. But sometimes, you know, if the, if the correct education and the correct information isn't readily available, these planners are so busy.

They're constantly shifting campaigns, especially during the pandemic. So we. The out-of-home industry from media owner side and from a marketing perspective under comb, we've got to do our job to really educate and provide compelling insights, um, you know, pieces, whether it's articles or just content clips that are.

Putting out the right information so that they have access to this, um, because if they don't have that readily available, then it's unfortunately not going to be added into their plans due to the fact that they're so busy. I couldn't agree more in it obviously sounds like you're doing a lot of that great work.

Uh, where else can folks get in touch with you? Where do they find you? Um, how does it learn more about you and. Uh, me personally, I'm most active on LinkedIn, so you can hit me up there. Uh, I do have Instagram and Twitter, but I'm not overly active on that. I'll come like twice to the LinkedIn. Yeah. Like Tom's team is constantly trying to get me on there more, uh, point them to the LinkedIn, for sure.

I'm definitely most active on LinkedIn. Uh, Colm is also most active on LinkedIn, but we, uh, we just launched our Instagram accounts and, uh, kudos to my marketing team had Alara and Mo for, for getting that set up and also for just like getting the, the comb talks thing organized, because that was a wicked endeavor, for sure.

Yeah. That's huge. I'm excited to go back. And listen to that conversation, for sure. Definitely looking forward to, to the ones who did in such a short period of time to like, I can't even understand how they pulled that off, but again, kudos to them.

Hit us up on LinkedIn. Obviously our website comb with two M's that's CA. Um, if you want to check out comb talks, it's comb with two M's dot CA slash Fox. Um, definitely plenty of content on there. And, um, yeah, I think that's the easiest way. Cool. Well, Amanda, I really, really appreciate you being here. We'll have to do it, dude.

Do it again sometime soon. And hopefully in person we can get, uh, get everybody to. Absolutely. If you found this helpful, please share it with somebody else who could benefit as always make sure to smash that subscribe button down below, and we'll see you all next time. Quarter century. I finally came to my senses.

I finally got my hand up on the tinted Benz kid. I see the real clip and my tinted lenses with the dream and the drive, the possibilities endless print that send this all the way to Tokyo. Take a trip down south ban a Mexico. Next stop. Shang how the world-class trade show of course, class. That's how we call us the rockstar business man, rockin shows.