Episode 068 - Cultivating Agency Leadership with Glyn Williams

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Let's go welcome everybody to the out-of-home insider show, a podcast like no other hosted by the one and only Tim Rowe.

You ready to have some knowledge dropped on. You went to being entertained because nothing's more valuable than food for your brain. So sit back, relax. We're about to dive in as the best industry podcast is the bathroom again. I've been on it for quite a while of like, I hate the word vendor, you know, like I think we should like find a way to move away from the word vendor.

I think vendor makes it sound like you're selling hot dogs at Wrigley field, you know, and. Which should be an ocean level hotdog or Wrigley field, but that's not what the relationship is. You know, like vendor feels transactional, right? I've got to say, you need a saying here's money. Like that's not what this to be.

Right. And I think we get bogged down in that a lot. Um, and I think you're starting to see, it's been interesting to me to see. People move back and forth more often. Right? So you have people really great, talented people, like, uh, you know, like, like, uh, like Lena out here in LA who like, you know, she was at kinetic and then she went to live in her sight and then she went back to agency and now she's back to the, you know, I just used to a vendor back to the operative side, you know, and I think we're seeing that more and more.

Right. And I think that just speaks to, there is a lot of fluidity and I think. That agency's, you know, it's interesting on this side of like seeing, you know, as I'm interacting with more agencies, obviously Morenci people and we'll say something proactive and the responses like this is great. Thanks so much.

If the client ever asks for this, we'll send it to them. And it's like, right. Okay, well then it's not proactive, you know? And I always felt like no fault of their own. They're all busy, you know? Okay. And I always felt like at an agency, I work with some really smart people like David Krupp in my Cooper who very much works.

Of the mindset of like, you know, as an agency, we ourselves need to increase our revenue and we need to do that from a proactive standpoint. And I think, you know, and I think that comes with a lot of sort of transparency. I think agency leaders should be transparent and directional with their staff in terms of having those conversations.

I think one of my first experiences that was, I was working on discover card at connect. And uh, with David crop and remedial Kosky and a lot of great people. And I discovered God had just signed on to be like the official sponsor of the orange bowl or something, whatever year that was, oh, 8 0 9. We're talking 10 years ago.

Right. And I remember seeing that kind of like an article, a press release or something, and I come and say, Well, that's interesting, like the ones, I suppose, a pretty big deal. And so, you know, we just sort of reached out to the client and just said, Hey, what are you doing to support the fact that you sponsored the orange ball?

And she was like, oh, I don't know nothing really. And it was like, so we put together a proactive, you know, super simple, some aerial banners, some digital bulletins with like a countdown clock, you know, whenever. And they loved it, super small buy, but I remember very specifically give a crop was like, because you did that because you saw that and reached out, you brought the company, you know, X amount, more revenue.

And it was an interesting moment of being like, well, that's interesting, you know, and like, well, that's pretty cool. And so I think, you know, At the agencies, like you should always be having a business development, a growth oriented mindset, and I'm sure that it's always there. It just has to be sure that it's kind of trickled down.

So to that end now in my role now, you know, again, it's a business development role. I don't necessarily, perhaps because I moved from running. You know, an agency in LA to now, like, you know, I came over to mom and a seat straight into CRO role and then president. So, you know, admittedly, I was never the boots on the ground sales guy.

And I remember when I moved from agency to sales, I was talking to when a happy hours, a certain rep, uh, kind of a cynical guy, nice guy. But I remember him saying to me, yeah, good luck adjusting to like people never returning your emails, your phone calls. And I just was like, well, I've been getting that agency side, like my whole career.

Like we set a plan to the planning team and they don't reply. They don't say, thank you. We send something to the client and they don't reply. You know, like it's, it's, we're all dealing with the same things. And I think it's kind of like, We spent a lot of times talking about the perceptions of how our jobs and our lives and our companies are different.

And I think we need to spend more time talking about, you know, really pretty much the same, you know? Yeah. No, I think it makes perfect sense in, in. So outside of the podcast, and right now I'm just recording for posterity sake. So I can go back and go through and find a really nice list of questions. Um, right.

So the, the podcast, I started the podcast when I was at Adams and, uh, you know, got furloughed because of COVID and position was eliminated, but ultimately have ended up at a really exciting tech startup and out of home. And. Like we just get to collaborate with people. Cause we're like, we're not an agency we're truly building a two-sided marketplace.

Um, so that we can help with the discovery component and show brands kind of what's possible. And then introduce them to like, just introduce them to the right people. Right? Bring in agencies that make the most sense for the client or, or show them, you know, different types of inventory. And we've gotten through that.

We've gotten to collaborate with a lot of people already and just, you know, a few short months. Do you think that like from a collaboration standpoint, is there, I guess I'll ask it the way that I'm really trying to ask it. You got, oh, AAA and geo pass, seemingly like getting divorced right now. Um, right.

Like there's, there's clearly this fractured thing a week before the conference. Um, Where did, like who has to take the lead on this? Like just getting everybody on the same page. Yeah. I mean, I think that you're, I can see that, um, I don't necessarily think of it. I think it's an overstay ministries are going to divorce.

I think that they do need to align on some messaging. I think the old AAA, you know, the measurement standards. I think there's something to be said for would have been a whole lot cooler. If it was a old AAA angiopathy plate we collab or, you know, we came together. Um, I think though AAA is probably have seen more.

Of it going through a little bit of a, um, evolution, I think going from like, you know, Nancy was great, but she approached it. I think it was very much like a, uh, administrative, a lobbying and advocate. And, and I think Anna has taken into the direction of like, Well, you know, uh, innovation and what should we be doing and how can we better sort of elevate out of home as a whole.

So I think, you know, and I've had a couple text messages and things about, you know, the and comments and questions about what I think of the new measurement standards. And I think. I'm not going to focus too much on the, you know, likelihood receivers opportunity. I think the point that I think AAA is trying to make is I've been in the room enough times through my agency career to see firsthand.

The way clients and the data guys at agencies discuss and think about out of home and the media mix modeling and time and time again, I've heard clients talk about, well, you know, we rely heavily on media mix modeling, but then out-of-home never really performs well. And so then, you know, so then we make a decision as to whether we're going to close it out or not.

And it's kind of like, well, we'll see, we're talking about data. We're talking about the use of debt. Up until the point where the data doesn't help us. In which case we don't want to talk about the data. We want to talk about the crib. You know, we want to talk about this and I've always said, it's like, we need to be able to think about, um, how do we, it's almost like as an industry we're talking about different things.

Like, it depends on what level we want to pull. Like, is it about consumer engagement? Is it about proximity to retail? Is it about, you know, mass awareness lotion? Is it about data. Attribution is about great date, gay, creative, and there's nothing more beautiful than a billboard, which is it. Well, of course, it's, it's all of it.

It's all that. And what we have to do is sort of like, you know, if we go down a path of talking to a client about creative, creative, creative, and in of the campaign and the creative side, What does that mean? The campaign sucks. Well, of course not. Right. And vice versa. So if we talk about, you know, a client who wants to put up a great creative in times square, That's not really about data.

I mean, right. That's about creative and that's about being and that's about, wow. So we keep trying to find a way to talk about all of the things while still being able to talk about specific things, sort of in like acceleration. So my point is that. Is I think that the ultra blaze point, the most important point of their, you know, measurement guideline discussion is we have to keep navigating how we fix that media mix modeling, you know, our data discussion and good amount of data in the world.

But if you show it to a client and then they doubt it, or they think it's bullshit, What difference does it make? What difference does it make? If we have a million impressions, if the client doesn't believe it versus if it's 890,000 and the client does believe in, which would you rather have? Right? The one the client plays, if it's like.

Right. The one that's going to actually make, like, make the impact is the one that resonates and this they believe, and that plays well with others. We have to stop talking about like, this is our sandbox, you know, like, and I think I've seen, um, I think maybe on your podcast, perhaps Laramie talked about this.

Yes, he did. He did like really great, really smart. Totally spot on of like, yes, of course we can, we can talk about our attributes and the great things about outdoor without shitting on like TV or radio or, you know, whatever, if I'm not listen to radio anymore. But like, you know, we can talk about ourselves and how we marry with everything else.

And I think that a lot of people in industry who are doing that well, Uh, but I don't think we're quite, you know, there and unified. And so again, it comes back to the data guys at the agencies, at the client at the media mix modeling. That's like, they're the ones who were sitting there and saying, okay, yes, we should buy this many to your piece of outdoor at, you know, I, I believe in it.

Great. They're the ones checking the box to say. You know, um, we agree and move forward and it's stuff that, you know, when I was at rapport, I try to make headway with, you know, people like conditioning. My Cooper did a great job also with like USDA initiative to make headway. And, you know, it just kept being covered, circular conversation and, um, you know, alone, hopefully we can get there, but.

To me, that's the ultimate, you know, unfortunately, you know, the old school days of, uh, you know, of relying solely on the charms and wit of a sales guy, that's never going to go away. Um, people are always going to want to give their business to people they like and trust. That's great. They should. But we have to accelerate the smart piece of that too.

Um, I'm stealing an old, I think it was an old again. I steal this all the time. I think it was an old David crept line. It just basically was like P he, he kind of said, people want to do business with people that they want to get better with. And. I've sort of taken that as like my mantra as I hired and brought in talent and cultivated talent.

It's just smart. People want to work with smart people. They like, and they trust that's that's whether it's a plumber accountant, uh, you know, a guy selling billboards, you know, it's, it's all the same. There's a, I can't recall a book it's from, maybe it was in Freakonomics actually. And it talked about.

Doctors that get sued most frequently for malpractice score the lowest on bedside manner. And the doctors get that gets sued, the least score the highest, but for the most part, the ones with the worst bedside manner are technically the most proficient doctors, but people Sue them because they don't want.

Not because they did the surgery. Right? So the, yeah, the dieters most likely to get sued are the ones with bad, bad bedside manner, regardless of technical. That's really, uh, yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, I probably would say. Yeah. I mean across the board, if, if, if you're working in sales and nobody likes you as a human, we, you probably should be doing something else, um, to, uh, to change your risk.

But at the same time, you know, the natures of things is like, I preached a certain moment of my career where like, I don't like some people, some people don't like. I say, okay. You know, it just says as long as, you know, there's a whole lot more people like me than don't I guess. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. How, how has it been adjusting to, you know, running the, the, the cell sales side?

Um, I've learned a ton, like, you know, I, I think the two things I probably would say again from a sales perspective, You know, I don't know that I've been, I've seen that different. I think the two things I've seen different one, um, being on the operator side and like communicating with the property owners and the developers.

Like that's been an eyeopening experience. Like I remember my first TIDA meeting to try to convince a property. I, you know, to do like a, you know, some barricades or something. Um, and that's the other interesting thing too. I probably shouldn't say, but it, the buying side, I hated their case. I always worked complicated to the worth.

And now on the sell side, I see how much interest other agencies have and I'm like, great. You know? Um, so that's part of it too. My personal preference in my eye for what inventory I liked. Well, yes, I'm allowed to have that thought. And I think as we bring on new property or evaluate, I do think. Is this something, you know, first I asked myself and, uh, you know, is this something I like, and I want to stand behind.

And the second I asked the sales team, like collaborative, like, do you like this? What do you think? How many times can you sell this? If the answer isn't, you know, a certain threshold that I want, then that's it. Forget it. You know, I just think inherently people don't want to do what they don't want to do.

And so if you make somebody sell a piece of inventory, they don't believe in, well, they're not going to sell it. And so what's the point, but to the, to your question. So I remember going into like a property on a developer and, you know, and talking about it from a media standpoint, you know, we were talking about the barricades and I kinda was like, you know, in the middle of the meeting, I kinda was like, oh, you know, what would be great too is like in the months that go unsold.

You know, let's put up like art, let's put art on the wall. And so we're creating public spaces of art and I was going on and on about how important art is to life. And the guy looked at me and he said, well, how often do you expect it's going to be. And I was like, oh, uh, well not, I mean, you know, well, not, not much.

And then he's like, well, I don't want to be in so little. And I'm like, well, of course it's gonna be unsold some months. You're not going to get a hundred percent occupancy. And then he was like, I just met with somebody yesterday who promised me that. And I'm like, You know, and so it was a funny, like, obviously, like, you know, we can't just be this, like, nobody's going to be a hundred percent occupancy.

Like we can't just be this race to the bottom and, you know, but also I was like this thing of like, right, okay. The property that is the money guy. How much money you're going to bring me, what's going to be my revenue Western, my profit. Like they don't care about grandiose. They don't care about programmatic.

They don't know what that is. They don't care about that stuff. You know, they don't care about, you know, integrating public art onto the barrier tape. That's not their back, you know? So the learning process of like, it is a reminder of like, At the root. Yeah. You know, the much, if we talk about, again, data impressions and creative, it's a real estate business, you know, and it's evaluating a piece of real estate.

Is that a good location? Is that where it should be? I think at least as, you know, a small guy like us, where we have like a hundred locations, you know, clear channel out front, like, but even then, you know, yeah. They're real estate guys there. We're evaluating. Is that where we, you know, should, can, and will.

Put up a billboard, put a barricade, put out whatever. Um, so that's been a huge learning experience and, you know, not to mention the permanent processes and you know, a lot of stuff. Um, but more so I think my adjustment has been like small business, so I've always been. You know, I was a star calm. I was a kinetic, I wasn't were poor.

Like I've always been part of, you know, publishes WPPI PG, like corporate, you know, the dirty work, the HR, the finance, there was always somebody else. They are doing that. And we had, there's a lot of ways working for big corporate is, you know, beneficial. There's a lot of ways that, you know, I was over it.

So to go from, you know, repour where I've managed it. Probably 25, maybe people that at one point in LA, um, you know, and, and like layers of personnel and staff to go into mom and we had like five people and. You know, and like, which is great in a lot of ways, but then it's been just adjustment, you know, it's not a complaint.

It's just, it's just a moment of adjustment. Right. It's a, um, you know, as simple as like, I go to the fridge to get a bottle of water and we're out and I'm like, Well, who's, who's supposed to order more water, fill my water, go buy my water. And I'm like, right, right, right. Of course. You know, like, you know, it's stuff like that.

And then, um, and I think from the same point of managing people, it's, you know, just staying true to. The way I've always, you know, manage people and, you know, it's still a people business, whether it's 20 people or five, you know? Right. And so it's just the little thing. So flight and then, yeah. And then now again, being a small business owner, you know, and, you know, I have a lot to learn about that.

Like, you know, I'm sitting down with our bookkeeper and she's talking about. Taxes, this and that. And I'm like, okay, you'd have to explain this to me probably three more times before I get it. You know, that's cool. It's cool to go through. Like, so we're working on one screen. This is my first startup. I've always been like kind of work for a big company.

And what I found is like, start-up is perfect for me. And like, that's, that's my kind of tempo is gritty, like light, like being in the dirt, like breaking things and, and figuring stuff out on your own. Um, so, so totally appreciate that. You know, I've tried to start like my own little side gig here and there over the years, and now I'm just learning so much like, oh, this is what it means to run a business.

I wasn't doing any of those things. I had no idea. Um, the, that I think people take that for granted. Like it's not, it's not easy to do. Uh, like, like you're, you're, you're making all these things available for us to buy and there's a lot of work that goes into yeah. Like it it's, you know, um, yeah, it's there again, there are a lot of ways.

Believe me there I'm not complainant. There were a lot of great ways of like, you know, Being kind of the person, you know, to, to collaborate, you know, our chief operating officer might cook. He's been with mom and for a long time and, and, you know, we collaborate well and just sort of like having a conversation of like, okay, well, you know, everything from.

You know, again, like, you know, our vacation policies to our like, you know, health insurance providers and all that stuff, but also to, you know, okay, well, this inventory is available. Like, should we acquire it? You know, like it runs the gamut, you know, and like, um, and setting our operating budget and all that stuff, I think to me is just like, you know, it's just fascinating, you know, it really is.

And it. I think the funny thing is I was saying this to somebody, like I bumped into a guy on the street you months ago when I was six months ago. And he, we kind of, he was at initially when I was at rapport and like, and now he went to sales and then, you know, so we were catching up and he kind of had a statement of like, yeah, like I shouldn't have said long time ago, I should have left.

And I think that's, you know, that's his truth and that's valid. But from my standpoint, This is exactly how, like, I don't think I could be doing this now, if I wasn't, you know, if I hadn't been surrounded by great people in the past and you know, and if I didn't have, you know, 18 years or whatever it is at agencies, like it's almost on a, literally to him on a daily level, there's a moment where something comes up or something.

And I have a thought of like, Okay, well, let's see something like this came up five years ago and here's how I did that. Okay. Well that didn't go that way. I should. Well, here's how I would do different, you know, and like within the moment sort of, or more often than not, of course, it's like, oh, well, yeah, well, based off this, this and this, you know, here's what we should do.

And, and I think, you know, and just again, more so. Relying on the process that I've taken that got me, you know, I, I probably ask, what do you think is probably the question I asked the most? You know, it's like, I think the, I think leaders get in trouble if they just think that, you know, they can go in a room and you start to bark and tell everybody what to do and you know, and, and I think that, yes, there's a balance there of like, if the boss is constantly say.

You know, it's different than saying, like I've had bosses who were like, well, I don't know what to do. And it's like, yeah, that's not really what the saying is. The saying is like, okay, well, I think I have an idea, but like, I want, you know, you guys' input, you know, I want to empower you to be part of the solution.

Um, again, what you, you think like, I know what I think, but I want to know what you guys think. And, and again, that's stuff that I do. Crafted an evolves, like, uh, a thing that some staff I might have rapport, you see companies all the time. It's like, yeah, I have a vision. Of course I have a vision, but you, every leader should, but then you edit it with some collaboration and you implement was consensus.

Um, you know, we just had a, you know, I can't. Go into too much detail, I guess, but we just had a thing come up of a potential new build and I sort of sat in my mind, I'm kind of like a deadline oriented. Like if you don't set sort of a potential end date, well then it's just going to drag. Right. And so you just sort of say, all right, yes.

I want to do that. I want to do it by this fate. So like, that's a goal. So two people development guy, operations guy, like appraiser guy, well, what do you need from him to be able to have it ready in time for you to do your part? You know? And again, that's all like, you know, yes. There's nuances to that from an outdoor standpoint.

And I don't know the answer to that, but the operations guy, I love him. Like I know. What I know is if we get this done by this state, well, that's gonna be a really good thing. And then to sort of manage the project in between, you know, and so that's stuff that, again, that's, that's all stuff that I think it's, that's the process that I learned over again, you know, agency life.

So those are little ways that it's not a ton different, you know? I mean, it's like, that is a specific, we talking about. Again, putting up a new structure, getting a new permit, whatever it may be. And that's the same as if a client comes and says, you know, okay, I really want, you know, immediate plan or, uh, you know, give us a POB on blah, blah, blah.

You know, it's just kind of like everyone in the room, you know, a new client pitch, you know, when's that agency. New client pitch that they like, um, there's an auto company. They sit on our P and you know, and it just was, we got everyone in the room and just was like, okay, you guys work on this sector, you guys, this sector, you guys are section let's get together on this date and then, you know, allow time to edit.

And you know, all that stuff is like, For me, it's fun to get shit done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more with that. The last couple of weeks have been very busy, which is awesome. Um, and we've, we've shipped a lot and like derms, like the things that drive the revenue. But then like in the back of my head from a marketing standpoint, I'm like, I'm so far behind on marketing stuff.

It's driving me crazy. Like, cause I need to ship stuff like I need, I need tangible, finished products to feel like, okay, I'm doing my job. How do you, how do you, th this is just me asking for my mentorship. How do you manage that stress of when, you know, you have things, but there are other things that are higher priority.

Is it like. Do you give yourself permission? Is it like an active exercise? Like, do you have any kind of coping things for that? Yeah. Well, I mean, look, that's always the thing, right. Is when you get to a moment of like, uh, conflicting priorities or, you know, there's more things to do and there's time to do it.

That's all. Yeah. You know, that's some deep stuff that you, I think, I think you would, permissions is a good one. Um, I think that there's, there's a few sort of things that sort of hover, and maybe there's a Venn diagram that they all intersect, but one of them is. You know, um, done well is better than like, uh, not done like, or, uh, maybe a different way to phrase that is like, um, done on time and done well is better than done late and great.

Right. So again, I had some staff, um, a great staff member who we talked a lot about. She got into like perfection paralysis of like, Consistently behave late on a plan delivery. And every plan was like the best plan she's ever done, but I'm like, yeah, I know that, but you got it like a day late, like, you know, and you know, and like we talked about, like she would spend like 80% of her time, like thinking about the planning and 20% doing and.

Um, as long as it's done on time. Right. And so, um, so I think there's that, I think there's also a control where you can control sort of a thing, right. And stay in your lane. Um, these are all kind of buzzy catchphrase, but they do think they have meaning. Um, I read, um, great book. I referenced all the time, the obstacles, the way they ran holiday, um, He's like talks a lot about, um, I'll send you a copy.

Um, he talks a lot about like the stoic philosophers and how like, you know, how to integrate that into business and, you know, stay present, control what you can control, um, you know, and sort of take every moment within the moment. While, acknowledging that every moment is going to build, prepare for what could be here, but allow yourself to kind of like deviate along the way while still knowing when you're going to go.

Right. So, but the day to day of like, yeah, you know, like I'm trying to finish something and then a guy calls and I'm like, oh crap, we're supposed to call him back. Like, I don't know. There's not always a magic bullet for that. You know, it's just about. Staying calm in the moment and just being able to, you know, get it done.

Um, there is, um, I think it's called the Eisenhower principle maybe where it's like important and urgent important, not urgent. Not urgent, not important. I forgot the other quadrant, something like that. And I think, you know, just, yeah, I mean, this is old school stuff. Right? Make a list and check it off against so much that I learned from other people along the way, there was a gal I worked with in, um, Chicago, kinetic, and she's just, she made her to-do list.

Firstly, she didn't want, she made a to-do list. And she said, I'm going to do these five things before I take a break for a while. And then when I come back too much, but these four things, anything that comes up within the day, it can wait, you know, and just a very like regimented that works really well for her.

Um, you know, and other people. You know, they're kind of like, well, you know, uh, I think I've had other staff who worked for me, who admittedly. Yeah. They usually the client would say, you know, every time we send an email, we expect an email back within the hour with either an answer or at least a reply to say we're working on it.

I was like, okay, that's a bit much, you know, but sure. I guess, um, you know, and just kind of like navigating that sort of, uh, you know, process with that, with that agency person and kind of saying, you know, look at what, what, what do we think, you know, what's, what's doable. Um, can we at least just send the.

Yup. Received. I'll get you an answer by tomorrow. Um, I think it's also about managing expectations and it just really the word vendor. I'd also like to ban the word ASAP, right? Like ACP doesn't really? Yeah. It's kind of a bastardized a little bit. It does not really mean, like, I literally have said clients, like in my mind, if I say I've got you, man.

Yeah, that from me, that's probably, I mean, that might be what's possible. Well, Sunday, some days. Um, but I had clients. Yeah. And that was on me. Like again, I would say to a client, like, yeah, I'll get this UAC. Like two hours later, do you have it yet? I'm like, okay. Like, you know, we need a chart. Like what ASAP means, you know, like ASAP, well doesn't really mean anything.

Right? So it's, yes, I can work on this. I will get this to you in two hours. I'll get this to you in two days, I'll get this to you on Wednesday, you know, uh, I will buy a hamburger today and pay for your Tuesday or whatever that'll pop. My eyes line is. Yeah, so we will ban the word vendor.

That sounds about right. That's about right. As soon as possible. Um, yeah. And like, and again, the last thing is just, if everything is urgent, well then nothing in church. If everything is now, well, that's not real. Right. So if, if you want everything now, well, then some of it's gonna be. Well, so then just agree to have it late, which means I'll get you tomorrow.

Right? Which means it's on time. If we set that expectation,

right? Glenn is, well, I'll be respectful of your time as to what we've been over a couple minutes. Is there anything that you want to talk about or any initiatives that moment has or anything that's like big pressing on, on, on your agenda that success, ultimately, the show's a platform for the industry.

So anything that you want to talk. Um, no, I mean, I think, look, I think, I think that what. I think moment is at an interesting moment. Like, so it's a 30 year old company. It was run by Richard moment. Um, and so the name of the company, um, and you know, he, he's a bit of a legend in the industry, especially on the west coast.

Um, and he, you know, and the company was doing really, really well and very successful. And then about five or six years ago, you sort of fall ill. Um, You know, and, and the company just sort of started to say sort of lost their bearing, um, for no fault of anybody in particular. Right. There's just that life.

Right. And I think what they got caught up in is if you're not moving forward, you know, that you're, you know, drifting backward. Right. And so there are ways that, you know, I've felt that. You know, the company has had great people in there, you know, currently the company and the past. And so the ways that I had felt that well, me coming in as kind of an outside, only with the company for a couple of years, is it fair?

Right? Is it appropriate for me to be the person to then start to run it? But then at the same time I've kind of felt well, well, that's exactly what makes it right. Like a company can be like a house, like is a 30 year old company. It's just like a 30 year old house. It can be great bones and then just some wobbling pieces and you just need somebody to come in and kind of tweak it and reconfigure it.

Um, and. So we're at this moment of sort of, you know, evolution, right. And what do we want to be and who are we? And we went from about 50 locations, uh, across three or four markets when I started to now, you know, either sort of owning or rapping about 150 locations, which 12 markets. Right. I think that's a fear, again, just sort of putting some new energy behind it and sort of looking at where we want to be.

Um, and some of that, yes. And admittedly, a lot of that has been accelerating our sort of rep model, our rep business. Um, it's not a new model of course, but it's just sort of elevating that, taking that in a different direction and kind of looking at everything that. You know, wrap everything that we sell.

There's at least some level of exclusivity exclusivity. Um, and I remember in particular, I was my first kind of road show there. Um, we, we, you know, it was one of these things. I went to New York, 10 meetings in three days, kind of a thing. And you know, and we, one of our walls are our favorite walls in San Francisco.

I put it up on the screen. We're talking about with agency, whatever. And an agency buyer said, that's not your wall. And we're like, Well, yeah, I mean, we sell, we wrap it, you know, and she said, I've seen that wall from four of the people in the last two weeks. Like if the rest of the year stuff is like this I'm outta here and, you know, and of course I was like, okay, like give me a break, but right.

One don't be a jerk. Well, I'm not going to. Yeah. But, but more so, you know, more so like she's she definitely was right. I was like, what are we doing? What is this. And is this what I want to do is just like, again, just staying true to myself as a buyer. I never liked that model. Like I'm, you know, I wouldn't have said that in particular, but maybe I would've thought that, you know, if somebody was just like, and similarly I never liked the model they went through in their own thing.

I respect all that, but I never liked the model of somebody coming in and like, you know, 20 different things going on that are all not related. And, um, you know, everybody's working hard by trying to make a buck, but I think it just never really resonated. And so I just was a moment of me coming out of that.

It just sort of like. What do we, you know, where do I want this come to the go, like the whole flight home from New York back to LA, I just wrote pages and pages of notes. So it's like, what are we, you know, what do we want this company to be? What do we want to go with it? What do we want to do? You know?

And, and I still would have been again, just sort of rip. Some of my sort of repetitive comments, like, you know, sort of a blue sky mentality, right. And a normal thought process, normal approach to things we often start with, what can we do? Right. That's sometimes our first thing. Well, if you start this sort of decision making process with what can we do, what do you vote?

Are you already put a ceiling on yourself? Versus like, there are tons of things that I'm doing all the time that, you know, before I did it, I didn't know if I could do it or not, but I'm going to do it anyway. I'm going to try to, or I'm going to invite people to help me do it. So we had to change the mentality from what can we do to then Sue, what should we do?

What should we do? Who should we be? What should we, where should we go? What should we add? Like, start with that. And then of course there's a level of, okay, well, let's take that list of what we should do and yes, let's start to think about what can we do and more so how can we do that? I want that wall that we talked about.

I want exclusivity on that. Okay. How do we do that? And how much time is going to cost? How much. Whatever resources and, you know, and you just sort of make that a priority, make that a goal. And then, yeah, and we did it, you know, we have exclusivity on that wall in particular. And so now we are able to say, yes, that's our wall.

And again, that's a level of perseverance of, you know, years at agency and the, you know, the number of times that I had a meeting with a client who was like, you know, He'd say, let me tell you, let me say this some time. We're never going to buy outdoor and chip away and chip away, chip away. And then, you know, he comes up to me and he's like, Okay.

Okay. So can you plan for like July, August, September, and it's like, so again, even at the agency level, right, that's a sales, you're selling him on outdoor over and over and over again. I wasn't talking about a specific board or whatever. It's about the concept about door. And then they did, you know, in that instance, 10 years ago, whatever it was, they did like that.

The guy who had so many, no five times when he did like a million dollar buys, you know, and like. It's the same thing, you know? Yeah. I love that framework of starting with what should we do versus what can't right. Cause you right. Can, is very limiting. It's what can I currently do today? What am I capable of today?

And that's going to that's the high watermark, right? Versus like, if I could just do anything and I had all the resources and all the skills and all the talent and you know, the laws of physics didn't apply. Okay, what should you do? Um, what should you do when he wants to do. How do you, you know, how do you make that happen?

Um, you know, what's realistic. Some self editing is just necessary, you know, um, like every, you know, every new opportunity that comes across by desk to acquire whatever, you know, I'm like, well, that looks good and let's do it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You know, like I can totally sell that. I know someone today.

Right, right. You know? Right. And it's like at the end, just surrounding yourself with the people of like, wow, hold on. Like let's, you know, let's, if we do that, well, then we can't do that, that, and that. And it's like five, you know, you can't do everything. Right. So there's some stuff. Cause I I'm I'm that way.

Like I see the possibility in everything as well. I'm so grateful for having, you know, my CEO and CRO to be like, okay, cool. But like, let's turn it upside. Right. They see things differently. It's sort of upside down. Let's actually see like, um, you know, some things will work and that, you know, some things, then I get even more excited about like, oh wow.

I didn't even think about that. And others are like, oh yeah, that, yeah. There's probably a better idea. We could be. Yeah. And that, that's a great, yeah, that's the power of collaboration. That's the power of the words. What do you think? Um, you know, and just some like, and having surround yourself with the right people, smart, likable, trustworthy people that you want to work with, and you want to sort of bounce ideas off each other.

And, you know, if you ask like, you know, a different model to not to keep going on and on, but like, you know, ask the three people, three, four people, whatever it is, You know. Okay, well, here's the problem. All of you come in with five bullet points about assault, this problem, you know, and then all bring them in.

If you ask three people to bring in five bullet points of how to solve a problem, the three people are probably going to have like. You know, probably five of those 15 are going to be the same. Like, you know, they're gonna all have the same buy down the same thing. Great. Well, that's your base and then it's going to be okay.

Well, well, I like half of your idea and half of your idea, well, let's talk about, can we blend those two, you know, and like, and all about collaboration, all about, you know, putting your energy for us around communication and the people that you work with, you know, and. You do that, you knew the right way.

Well, then, you know, you got nothing to lose, right? Skies above blue skies ahead. Amen to that. Amen. All right, good. I really appreciate it. I'm going to go back, get a bunch of good questions. I'll get you a list. And then we'll put that. We'll put some time on the books to a look. This was great. I mean, take a look at it.

Do some editing. If. Yeah, we could be close. Yeah. You know, just mapping and see what you're thinking. If there's a couple more follow-up questions you want, then I'll wear the same outfit so we can like splice them together. All right. Awesome. Thanks so much. Have a good weekend. We'll see. You had a great weekend.

Yeah. I finally came to my senses. I finally got my hand up on the tinted. And my tinted lenses with the dream and the drive, the possibilities endless that send this all the way to Tokyo. Take a trip down south van in Mexico. Next step, Shang how the world-class trade show first class all the way. Cause that's how we call us the rockstar.