Maximizing OOH Campaigns with Technology: Insights from Eric Kubischta, CTO and Co-founder of Lucit

Tim Rowe (00:00:00) - Welcome to Out of Home Insight at the first podcast for media and marketing executives that connects the relationship between offline attention and driving conversion. My name is Tim Rowan. For the past three years, I've been interviewing guests about their unique experiences in bridging this misunderstood and undervalued opportunity for brands to create alchemy in the real world. And today's episode is the perfect follow up to last week's conversation about using the Metaverse to sell out of home, because today's guest is Eric Kubischta. Eric is the CTO and co-founder of Lucid Technologies, a startup that has solved trafficking, digital creative, the way that capitalizes on the best parts of dynamic digital capabilities, while giving brands maximal control over being able to blend traditional guaranteed buying with some of the bells and whistles that make programmatic attractive. We talk about the technology in this episode, and Eric even outlines use cases for agencies and media owners alike, which I think you'll really enjoy.

Tim Rowe (00:00:57) - But the parts I want to call out specifically for you are around Eric's unique insight about where internet advertising came from in the mid nineties to where it is today, and how that timeline overlays with where out-of-home is. Now, we talk about the completely underfunded conversation that is feedback and collaboration, and how to create useful feedback loops to actually get what you want. The big idea I asked you to consider last episode was how do you show something that needs to be felt? And I want to carry that idea over to this conversation because it's an installment in that concept. But I also want to ask you to consider this. How can you be an even better collaborator with your technology partners? How can you commit to providing more direct feedback like quantity, clarity, so that the technology being built is ultimately what suits your needs? So, without further ado, let's go

Eric Kubischta (00:01:50) - Welcome everybody to the Out-of-Home Insider, show, a podcast like no other, hosted by the one and only Tim Rowe. Get ready to have some knowledge dropped on you and to be entertained because nothing's more valuable than food for your brain. So sit back, relax. We're about to dive in as the best industry podcast is about to begin.

Tim Rowe (00:02:16) - Eric Kata, thank you so much for being here. We were talking the lead up that the episode with Gina Gordon, your co-founder over at Lucid is, uh, is tracking to be the number one most listened to episode. So if you're hearing this, we gotta help Eric out. You gotta share this right away. We're gonna try to create as much momentum and, uh, and then we'll just keep everybody posted online. Eric, thanks so much for being here. Yeah, yeah.

Eric Kubischta (00:02:42) - Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

Tim Rowe (00:02:43) - For sure. It's gonna be a, a cool conversation cuz I think that we're gonna get to talk a little bit about your background and, and what it's like building technology in out of home, which is, you know, obviously it's advancing at a very rapid pace, but you know, where it is on kind of a timeline of advertising history is interesting. So really looking forward to that. And then there's some new product out by Lucid. Uh, but for anyone that doesn't know or didn't hear that episode with Gina, just remind folks who is lucid. What do you guys do?

Eric Kubischta (00:03:14) - So in general, we're a company, we make a, a software platform called Lucid, um, that is, that is designed to make, um, controlling your billboards easy. That's, that's really in, in a nutshell, that's what it's about. Um, we, we make software that makes it easy for clients, advertisers that people with the ads on the boards to control those ads and change them and update them, uh, in lots of different ways, whether that's data feeds or whether that's manual or whether it's with our Instagram like interface for posting. It's, it's all, uh, about making it easy for them to advertise on billboards.

Tim Rowe (00:03:45) - Yep. Easy control in a really, really modern way and with some cool features. You know, the inventory feeds is something that I know we talked about on, on, on the first episode with Gina. Um, and yeah, you guys, I think are doing some of the really, really cool work inside of the space. But take us back before, before you and Gina started lucid. Like, where were you in the world? You weren't doing anything in that at home, I don't think. What, what were you doing before this?

Eric Kubischta (00:04:13) - Well, okay, let me see. Well, I mean, if I go back, if I go back far enough to the nineties, um,

Tim Rowe (00:04:18) - Let's go all the way back to the nineties or in again, let's go back to the nineties.

Eric Kubischta (00:04:22) - We, we can go back that far. Yeah. Um, so I got my first technology job, I think I was, I think I was 20 years old, and I went to work for, uh, uh, a call center company in Bismarck, North Dakota, uh, called Sykes Enterprises. Um, and at that time, uh, Sykes is long, has, has since been bought out, but, uh, Sykes Enterprises at that time was doing customer support, technical support for clients like, uh, Microsoft, um, and, uh, gateway Computer Corporation and, and things like this. So I got my first job there working, uh, doing tech support for Gateway computers. Um, and this is in 19, this is like, I think it was the summer of 95 is when I started there. Um,

Tim Rowe (00:05:02) - It's like a Brian Adams song. Yeah.

Eric Kubischta (00:05:05) - . I started there when Windows was 95 released, like right at the same time, what was 95 released. Um, I remember watching the launch, you know, launch party of Steve Ballmer, like you've probably seen the famous launch party dancing of Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer. I watched that. So I, I think . So it's, it's, you know, if I go all the way back to the nineties, I got my start in the tech, uh, in tech, in the call center business. I sort of like worked my way up through that company. Um, by the time I left it in, in, in 2004, I was a global account manager managing operations in, uh, the Philippines, uh, in India, and then some in the US as well. Uh, we were in Oregon and, and, and North Dakota. Um, but my, I I wasn't a software developer there. I was, I was, I was a tech and I was a training manager, and then I was a, an account manager, global account manager.

Eric Kubischta (00:05:54) - Um, but I was not a, a programmer. However, when I was a kid, I had taught myself to program on our home computer using basic right. So that's where I got my programming start. And in my job at Sykes, I never had the tools I wanted. Like I, I, we were doing stuff that was manual that I knew that could be done better. Like, you know, stuff that would take an hour of data entry I know could have been done with, with, with scripts or with programming or whatever. Um, so I, I just taught myself how to program and the reason was because I needed to make my job easier. And that's really what it was. That's what programming for me really was at that time. Um, making my own job easier and making other people's jobs easier. Um, and so that's where I got my start in programming.

Eric Kubischta (00:06:37) - And so I left that company to start a consulting company doing, uh, doing programming. I really, uh, I was getting tired of the travel. I was spending a lot of time overseas, a lot of time in India and the Philippines, which is neat to visit once or twice. But going there a lot was, it was difficult on me and my family. So, um, I, I started my own, uh, consulting company, um, that sort of grew into consulting with a, uh, uh, uh, another, a local company that had sort of this online classified website that I just gotten started. Anyway, if, if you think back to like 95 when I started with, with Sykes what the internet was like in 1995, I dunno how old you're Tim, but

Tim Rowe (00:07:14) - I mean, I don't think I was on the internet in 1995. Like, I'm thir. I just had a birthday. I'm 37, so Right. I really got onto the internet, I guess in probably middle school, which would've been 97, 98. So I mean, 95 even predates that.

Eric Kubischta (00:07:32) - Right? Yep. Um, and you know, to put that respect to my first business trip I ever took, uh, was to go to, I went to the Microsoft campus in Seattle for a training class on Internet Explorer version four. Right. So this, that was my first business trip I ever took was for this training class, three day training class on this, can

Tim Rowe (00:07:50) - Not get that training course on vhs, on eBay.

Eric Kubischta (00:07:52) - Yeah. I'm sure I could find it somewhere. But the, here's the amazing thing about that, that browser was the first time HTML could be dynamic, which means you could look at a webpage and it could change Wow. While you were looking at it without having to refresh the page. It was like the first like dynamic html it was called, that was our big thing. It was Internet Explorer four, um, and it, and it, and, and it was dynamic HTML that completely changed the internet. It turned it from just somewhere to maybe see news and pictures to something you could interact with and

Tim Rowe (00:08:22) - Made it alive,

Eric Kubischta (00:08:23) - Interact with it. All of a sudden it exploded and it was right after that that the dotcom boom went boom, huge because all these websites were developing because of all this new technology that allowed 'em to do that. Now there was the crash, uh, we all heard about, but, um, , but yeah, so I, I was like right in the middle of all that. Like, I, I sort of lived through the dotcom boom and lived through all the tech that was involved in all that. I was a beta tester for Windows 98. I mean, just like all this cool stuff with Microsoft. Wow. Uh, back in the day. So Microsoft was the main account I worked on for most of my time, um, at, at, uh, working at Sykes and working with Microsoft. It was, it was pretty great, great time. I kinda looked back on it like, God, that was cool. You know?

Tim Rowe (00:09:01) - So you rode like the, the early internet wave and you got through the.com bubble mm-hmm. . Um, and, and what happened after that?

Eric Kubischta (00:09:11) - Um, so I left the company, uh, in 2004, started a consulting company doing like business app programming basically for local businesses, you know, not making much money. Um, and then there was a local website in Bismarck, and it was called Bisman Online, and it was like Craigslist, but in Bismarck. So like Sweet Craigslist was kind new then. And there was like a, this site was just Bismarck's Craigslist. It, like Craigslist never really got,

Tim Rowe (00:09:34) - There were tons of 'em, right. There were like classified sites everywhere.

Eric Kubischta (00:09:38) - Yes. So like this little website, you know, and it had, you know, I had a decent amount of traffic at that time and I sort of met up with the guy that owned it and, and I sort of like looking at stuff. I'm like, you know, I think we could make more money on this website. That's really what I thought at that time. Like, God, I think I know that, I know that we, so I made a deal with him. We made a deal and, uh, I, I essentially worked for Biman online from about 2006, uh, until 2019. Um, and that's where I met Gina because, uh, we hired her as a sales exec right outta college in 2009. Wow. So that's when I, Gina became the director of sales at Bisman Online. Um, I was the technology director there. Um, and then we both left the company in, in 2019 and we started this company. So,

Tim Rowe (00:10:25) - And here we are. Alright. We're so, so how did you end up deciding we wanna go build technology for outta home

Eric Kubischta (00:10:35) - Accidentally is how we was, how that happened? Um,

Tim Rowe (00:10:38) - It's typically the, the way, unless you're born into it, it seems to be by accident,

Eric Kubischta (00:10:42) - Uh, in a nutshell. Um, when we started our company, we were gonna focus on automotive solutions, automotive sort of advertising, inventory solutions like taking cars, putting 'em on the internet, right? Mm-hmm. , um, and making software to make that easy to do. That's like, I was thinking about how do we make it easy? Um, and we, I just sort of stumbled on this idea. I was, the story is, is I was sitting at a Taco John's drive-through Taco John's is like Taco Bell. I dunno if you have Taco John's out there.

Tim Rowe (00:11:10) - We don't have Taco John's, but damn, I wish we had a Taco John's. And I think that 98% of the listening audience is going, I want a Taco John's in my neighborhood. So

Eric Kubischta (00:11:19) - I'm there, I'm sitting there with my wife and waiting to get some tacos, uh, shoot. And uh, um, and, uh, I'm looking at this billboard, this digital billboard, and it's like flipping through the ad and I'm sitting there waiting and light just watching this thing, you know? And then I saw, I saw an ad for a radio station come up, and that radio station ad said, now playing whatever song, I think it was a Billie Eilish song, may might have been. Mm.

Eric Kubischta (00:11:46) - And I'm like, wow, okay. I, I was like, huh, Emily, honey, turn on the radio. You know, we turned or turned to 96 5 or whatever the station was, you know, she turns, turns there. Sure enough, that's the song of this's playing. I'm like, and it like, just like instantly it was like, these things are connected to network. Like you can control these things, you can put data on 'em. Like, it all like, sort of flowed into my instantly like, okay, I get it. These digital billboards are connected to networks, obviously. I don't know why I didn't put that together before, but obviously they're connected to data and you can, you can change the data on that board in real time. That's like what hit my head at that point. I called Gina that night and I, maybe it was a text, but let's say it was a call.

Tim Rowe (00:12:24) - The story's be, it's a, yeah, it's a call. It's a call for, for as long as we're telling the story, it's a call.

Eric Kubischta (00:12:28) - Yeah. So I said, uh, I, let's, I think we can, let's put cards, let's put these cards on billboards. And she's like, what? I'm like, yeah, like these digital board, I think that we could like generate the creatives automatically and, and put 'em on the billboards. So we talked about this idea and how we would like do that. We didn't know anything about billboards. We knew nothing about them other than we've seen them. We didn't know anything about, we didn't know anything about the, the, like the software, the hardware, the companies. We, we really didn't even know anybody, anybody anywhere. But that was an I digital sign. That was the name of the company I digital, um, which is the billboard company in North Dakota, Minnesota, South Dakota. And they only have digital signs. So, uh, I was able to, uh, we called somebody there. They, they thought we wanted to buy billboards.

Eric Kubischta (00:13:15) - So like, they're like, yeah, we'll talk to you cuz they thought we were gonna, you know, trying to buy billboards. And, uh, and then I was able to like pitch this idea to them. Um, and okay, the salesman was like, okay, well I don't know. Let me talk to my boss. And so I was able to get on the phone with, with the boss and say, I, I wanna, I wanna see if I can connect an auto dealer to this billboard, their cars, you know, and I really like talked through this idea and, and I said, and we just wanna do this for free just to see if we can make this work. So we called an auto dealer, uh, in town that we knew and said, Hey, for we wanna put your cars on a billboard for one week for free. Oh yeah, sure. Sounds cool. Um, yeah,  and, uh, we had already had, the software we had started building already was connecting to the inventory system. So we had the data already. Um, what we built then in that, in, in about a month or two was, was the tools that converted that data into creatives right. On templates and stuff.

Tim Rowe (00:14:07) - Mm.

Eric Kubischta (00:14:08) - So we connected it all up. We, we started the campaign. Um, I, I, uh, I was able to talk to the software vendor. It was apparatus and, uh, we were able to, to get this hooked up on the backend. Um, it was really rudimentary, but, you know, we got it hooked up and I drove down Washington Street. I, I parked there and I looked at the sign and I'm like, there, it's, there's my app. There's the app. Oh, and there's the next one. Ah, it's a different car. It

Tim Rowe (00:14:32) - Fucking works. Let's go.

Eric Kubischta (00:14:34) - It worked, you know? And, uh, I thought Gina was in tears almost when we saw that. Like, we thought, ah, yes, it's a huge

Tim Rowe (00:14:40) - Moment. It

Eric Kubischta (00:14:41) - Was a huge, yeah, it was a huge moment. Um, so we proved from a technology standpoint that it worked, but at that point we had a lot of work to do because all we had was this backend connection. There was no way to control it to up, to do anything like, like normal with it, you know? Ok. So that's when we decided, okay, now it's time to really build this out. It's, it's time to decide what our app is gonna look like and build out an app. We gotta make it so they can control it. We started, you know, we started really building it out. And then over time, you know, the feature set of the app grew, it became more than an automotive app. It became a creative management app, um, for controlling your billboard creatives. So yeah, it's for auto, there's an auto fee and feeds, and it's for real estate and, and whatever, but it's really for anybody that wants to be in charge of their own creatives on that billboard. And it, and it's not necessarily programmatic and just be with the contract you have with your out-of-home company. And it doesn't, it doesn't matter. All we provide is the creatives. Um, so yeah. So that's, so that's where it all, that's how it got started was, was,

Tim Rowe (00:15:42) - I mean, I I love founder stories, so thank you for sharing that with the audience. There's, there's probably some budding founders out there that are, are going through some of those same challenges mm-hmm.  and, and experiencing those same moments or looking forward to them themselves. So yeah. Uh, and that's, that's, that's where we are. Like, that, that is such a special thing about wear out of home is, and mm-hmm.  something that we talked about a little bit is, is just thinking about this on the, on the timeline of history, where out of home is, and, and, and you were there at day one of the internet. So I mean, you, you tell me, you tell me like, where do you feel like out of home is, uh, on that timeline?

Eric Kubischta (00:16:23) - I feel that we're still in this special time. Um, and, and I'll, and for, for a couple of reasons. Um, if you think about the digital boards themselves really like high quality, great looking digitals 10 years, right? Over the last 10 years, which is where you've start started to see these. And the ones that are coming out now are absolutely amazing. I was at a Timberwolves game about a month ago, and the sign, the, and the screen in that building is like, what? I can't even like handle it. It's so huge,

Tim Rowe (00:16:52) - Crazy. Um,

Eric Kubischta (00:16:53) - So anyways, like we, we've really over the last 10 years, imagine, look at, think of what the tech has done just on the hardware side. Okay? The other thing that's happened during these last 10 years is the cell networks have gotten better. So, you know, we've gone now, uh, uh, up to 5G networks and now we can move that data across these networks without it being such a huge cost as it might have been 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, et cetera. Mm. So, so the networks have, have really matured to move the data. Um, the hardware has matured, but what, what, but the biggest problem we think right now is the software, the software that, that controls the billboards themselves, the software that runs on the billboards. Um, that's where I think where the biggest like struggles are. A lot of signs come with the software that came with the sign, and that software originally was probably built for an on-prem sign. Like, that's like, it's like here, ok, yeah, we're gonna run eight ads, you know, are gonna, you're gonna run a loop, right? Um,

Tim Rowe (00:17:50) - I'm a commercial real estate investor. I've got, yeah. Some retail space and I've got a, a digital sign and I'm just control, maybe I've got a few slots in there for stores and, you know, grand opening or whatever, but it's not, it's not meant to be connected to the internet, the, the, the network of, of things, uh, that exist in the world. And,

Eric Kubischta (00:18:11) - And, and I get it because at, at, at one point, the sign manufacturers are going to the billboard companies saying, Hey, you should buy a digital sign. And they're trying to figure out like, well, how should this work? And they might've even asked out of home, how would you like this software to work? Well, you, you take a company that's been selling static billboards, ask 'em how the software should work. They're gonna say, well, what if we split it into eight spots? You know, what? Or whatever. Like, let's, let's just, there's static,

Tim Rowe (00:18:34) - That's a, I'm gonna, I'm gonna link it in the, in the show notes here. Um, Ian Delamore, one of the early episodes of his podcast, digital and Dirt, he, they, they tell that story and it's exactly, it was exactly that. Mm-hmm. It was exactly that. It was, okay, well, what are we gonna do with this thing? Well, we're just gonna gonna split it into eight shares. Like, that's truly the story. And, and yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Like, here's all I needed to do. Right. Allow me to traffic up to eight different creatives.

Eric Kubischta (00:19:03) - Right? And, and, and this is really a general software development like issue. And it's not just billboards, it's any, any type of software. Let's say that the, let's say the founders of, of Instagram, we'll just use Instagram as an example. Let's say the founders of Instagram went to a group of people and said, we wanna make a photo app. What would you like it to do? You would not have Instagram, because what makes Instagram, Instagram is the founder saying, this is what it, this is what we're gonna make. And then you got the

Tim Rowe (00:19:33) - Flicker,

Eric Kubischta (00:19:34) - Or Yeah, right. Or whatever. So yeah, you might get flicker, right? Right. So really the number one, it sounds crazy, but the, the, one of the biggest mistakes that software companies make is asking their customer what features they want in the software. Mm-hmm. , um, uh, because the customer has a really hard time viewing what the purpose of this software is beyond, um, their, their, their worldview. Right. Um, and, and it's nobody's fault. It's just, that's just how people are. I would be the same way, if somebody came up to me and said, how would you, you know, how would you like, uh, you know, if somebody said, how would you like your coffee cup to work? I would say, well, I already have a coffee cup and I don't need any other kind of coffee cup. Well, you know what I got for Christmas from Gina? I got a coffee cup that keeps my coffee warm all day, all day long. Right? Now, I would've never thought, think it was a great gift gift. I've never thought it, yeah. Great gift. But I would've never thought of that. If somebody said, how, how could we make a coffee cup better? I'd been like, I don't know. The handles are, I think they're fine. I would've said, it's fine. Everything's fine with my coffee cup. It works. There's no need to mess with it. But now I have a coffee cup that keeps my coffee warm.

Tim Rowe (00:20:42) - It's the Henry Ford, you know, they, they, they would've asked for a faster horse. Right? Right. Sometimes you have to, right. It's, it's answering what is the job to be done. Mm-hmm. . So as a technologist building in an out of home that is at this kind of very interesting, uh, you know, intersection in time, how do you get to that? How do you figure that out?

Eric Kubischta (00:21:07) - How, how do you get to that? You, you have to, one of the things is, it's really important is that, uh, people like us come into the space. And, and, and the reason for that is, is because, and, and we're not the only one. There's tons of software companies in the out-of-home space that were not out-of-home people. Mm-hmm. . And that's really common. And the reason for that is because people not in the out-of-home space are bringing in ideas and innovation. Uh, they're saying, okay, hey, industry that we see that you've been doing it this way for a long time, why do you do it like that? And I wonder if there's a better way, and maybe there is, maybe there isn't. And then there's resistance because the out of, you know, the industry, no matter what, the industry is not just out of home, it's every industry has this issue.

Eric Kubischta (00:21:52) - The industry says, well, no, this is not how we do things. We do things like this. And then the newcomers are like, well, wouldn't it be better if it was like this? Um, and, and what you find is a couple of things. In some ways, the, the industry people are correct. Um, and, and the newcomers coming in, and then they're saying, this is how you should do it, but they don't have the full picture. Right? So the newcomers, um, maybe have a great idea, but, but they might be not good at implementing, and they might not be good at seeing how their idea really impacts that industry as a whole and what the good is and what the bad is, and how to navigate all of that. So it's, it's really complex. So you have lots of companies out there that are, that are in this space. They, they weren't out of home people. They brought new ideas in and, and it was, and it's difficult to get that moving. And eventually, their original plan, original thought of what they were gonna do is, has become maybe at the core the same, but vastly different as you started to get to the practical side of things. Right. So, um, I dunno where I'm going with this now. I think I, I sort of lost my train of thought, but I'm just sort No,

Tim Rowe (00:22:53) - No, it's so good. It's so good because, uh, it, it's something that I had actually just talked about recently. Um, I've been going back and re-listening to all of the guest spotlight conversations like this, these one-on-ones re-listening and taking away and kind of downloading what are the, what were the key takeaways? What did, what, like if I distilled that all the way down mm-hmm.  to a less than 10 minute version, what would be the, the high impact takeaway? Um, and that was something that I, I mentioned on a recent one about programmatic, which is to me, having sat on a few different sides of this, right? I, I come from the sell side. I worked for, you know, a a, a really fast growing tech company. We went from a hundred thousand to 10 million in revenue in 12 months, and, you know, scaled up really fast and right.

Tim Rowe (00:23:45) - Did, did a bunch of things and, and, and got to build some technology along the way. And now to come back and have a proper seat at a great buy-side specialist like that perspective, what I see is there's not enough collaboration, there's not enough feedback taking place. There's a, there's an expectation. Um, I think, you know, kind of from everybody, like this is the finished state. I'm not seeing a lot of people that are actively seeking feedback. I'm more frequently seeing and hearing, here's what it is, here's what we have, here's why you should use it the way that it is. And, and there's not, there's not really this kinda give and take I don't see. Right. Do you see that? Do you observe that? Is that something that is just isolated to me and maybe , maybe I need to punch outta my bubble?

Eric Kubischta (00:24:40) - No, no. I think, I think you're right. And, um, I, I think great ideas need to be like, refined and implemented, right? Um, and, and, and for you to do that, you have to figure out what's working and, and what's not working, right? Um, sometimes you stick, you should stick to your guns. Sometimes you should say, this is, yes, this is our vision. And you know, if, if, if you, if you try this, it's, it's gonna work. And, and if you believe in that, you know, eventually you can get it, but you might find on the other side of it that you're doing some stuff wrong, right? Um, and it's, and it's good to understand that. And the only way to know that is to see it from the other side and, and try to see what's happening when people are trying to use your product, your service or, or whatever.

Eric Kubischta (00:25:21) - It's a really good example is programmatic, because again, the programmatic stuff, a lot of it probably came from people that were in the internet side of things, right? Mm-hmm. . So they saw the way that internet, uh, advertising was bought and sold, and they're like, we should just take this and move it to out of home. And it's not that simple. Um, it's not that simple. No, it's not. Um, even in a perfect world, it's not that simple, um, because it's such a different medium, but you take sort of, sort of the, some of the core ideas, sort of some of the mechanisms of programmatic, and then you figure out how to apply that to this new medium, and you build a new product, you, you, and you build, and then you will end up with the right product, um, at some point. Yes. Um, because we do know that the buyers would like, would like to buy things in an easier way. Um, and the sellers, you know, the people, the screening ares, they, they wanna make more money. Um, but, but it has to be executed, uh, uh, correctly. And I don't think we always, I don't think we yet fully know the answers to all of those questions yet.

Tim Rowe (00:26:20) - Agreed.

Eric Kubischta (00:26:20) - Um, and, and it's because not all screens are connected up. I mean, it's because you have new screens coming online. How do you programmatically buy, uh, uh, static inventory? I mean, there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of questions out there. And, and I think that's what the interesting piece is, is that, um, companies are, are gonna come along and help solve these issues, and not one company will solve them all. And, and so there's not gonna be like one out of home software company that's, that's just not how it, how it works. You're gonna have a lot of companies, a lot of software, and, and, and as long as that software can work together, um, you're gonna build this awesome ecosystem. Uh, and that's also, I think is important that that software opens up their APIs, uh, and opens up their, their platforms for development and innovation. Um, so, so yeah, we think that's important too.

Tim Rowe (00:27:09) - It is a blue ocean, uh, the internet. I think it's something like, there's 8,000, there's more than 8,000 marketing tech technology companies online. There are,

Eric Kubischta (00:27:21) - There's not more actually.

Tim Rowe (00:27:22) - Yeah, it's pro, right? It's out of home has and depends how you want to cut this number up less than 70, right? And if we really, really, you know, parse that out, you know, maybe it's a dozen mm-hmm. . So there is plenty, uh, plenty of room for everybody to play here. I want to come back to the, uh, to the importance of APIs there. Um, but something that you mentioned a little bit earlier about anybody that wants to control their billboards mm-hmm. , can we break into that a little bit more? Like I'm, I'm sitting over here representing a little bit of the buy side in this question of, alright, I've got lots and lots of digital bulletins that I'm buying, and one of the challenges is trafficking creative, making sure that it's live, right? Some of these things, is this something that would solve for that for me, or is this just for media owners and, and sellers?

Eric Kubischta (00:28:21) - Well, I I, part of it probably comes from what process you might be used to. So let's use an example of, um, we'll just use an example of his local small business and that, and that business. Currently, they spend money on sort of online advertising. So there's a local marketing person, and that person is taking the incentive creatives, making creatives and, and whatever, and they're publishing those to, to, you know, the online stuff, Facebook, or maybe it's, you know, Google or whatever. Um, and then they wanna, and then they wanna also, uh, and then they have a billboard contract. Okay? Let's say they've, they've already decided they wanna buy out of home, right? Mm-hmm. , let's say they're already an out-of-home customer. Um, and so now they have like, they're on five billboards in their town and they wanna change their creative. The current process for most people is that they then email that to somebody

Tim Rowe (00:29:08) - Mm-hmm.

Eric Kubischta (00:29:09) - . That that's the most common process.

Tim Rowe (00:29:11) - Who emails it to somebody else who might then also have to email somebody else?

Eric Kubischta (00:29:16) - Exactly. You know, an out-of-home company's got a tra a traffic person. That traffic person then traffics an ad with start and stop times, uh, and whatever. Um, and, and let's say you spelled something wrong, you wanna change it, okay, I gotta email another one. Um, so that, that obviously that works, but, but what does that do? So that incentivizes the person not to send you new creatives because it's, it's a, a pain in the butt and, and the scheduler at your company. They don't wanna load 27 creatives a week for a customer or whatever. No. Whatever the whim of that customer is, they don't wanna be having that change all the time. Um, so anyway, so we feel like, you know, for some segment of, of advertisers, um, there's a group, there's a, there's a, there's a segment of them that would, that would maybe like to do it differently. Um, there are people that would rather just email their creative to somebody. We know that, right? So there, there's people, they don't, they just like their, they like their rep and they're just gonna email the add to their rep. And that's what they wanna do. Least it's not for that customer.

Tim Rowe (00:30:19) - Okay?

Eric Kubischta (00:30:19) - Um, lucid, lucid is for the customer that would rather just control it themselves. So really what what Lucid then does is, um, I'm gonna actually bring up one, but while I'm talking, so what, what Luc, I'm gonna give you an example actually of, lemme find this here.

Tim Rowe (00:30:37) - Think we're gonna get some live demo here. So if you're listening to this, I will link to the YouTube, uh, at this timestamp. I know that's a very sophisticated maneuver by me, but, um, I'll come back timestamp this so you can see what Eric sh showing on the

Eric Kubischta (00:30:53) - Screen. Yeah. So let's maybe think about, um, uh, let's think about, um, how it could be done differently. You have an, so that same company, you have an ad contract with, um, your Outof home company, and that ad contract has a start date and an end date, right? It starts on February 1st. You're, you're, you bought three months and you're gonna be on there for the next three months.

Tim Rowe (00:31:16) - Mm-hmm. ,

Eric Kubischta (00:31:17) - What would be ideal for an advertiser that's already used to controlling their creatives is that the out-of-home economy just sets the parameters of that contract to say, Hey, your contract is from this date to this date, and now here you use this app and you just put your creatives in there and whatever you're putting in there, and whatever you do is gonna run during this timeframe.

Tim Rowe (00:31:36) - Heck yeah.

Eric Kubischta (00:31:37) - Simplify the process for everybody, right? Because it would simplify the process for the scheduler. The scheduler just sets the, the parameters of the contract doesn't have to worry about creatives. Mm-hmm. , the sales rep has sold the location, sold them on, on the idea of out of home, sold them on the traffic that's surrounding field boards, whatever. Um, so they've sold 'em on the idea, and now they don't have to message or manage creative anymore for this client that already wants to manage their own creative anyway. You know? Um, so what, what you get when you do that? I'm gonna share my screen. I'm gonna just show you this one sort of example I like to use. This is a pretty good example. So if you can see my screen here,

Tim Rowe (00:32:20) - We, you can see your screen.

Eric Kubischta (00:32:22) - It's a bar. This is like a bar, and they have, you know, food and drink and events at this bar mm-hmm. , uh, and if you look, they are updating and adding in ads whenever they want to. So look at these different ads. So this is when they posted these ads. The fourth, the first

Tim Rowe (00:32:37) - January 4th. And what are we looking at right here? What viewer is this as if I'm the bar? The, the screen that I'm looking at right now,

Eric Kubischta (00:32:45) - This is sort of a public feed of, of their page of just, I just wanted to show like what the creatives look like kind of in a stream. That's what this is. Got it. So this is actually combining a couple things. This is a, our system actually renders the ads for that customer on the billboard. That's what our Lucid XR product is. So, so this customer, not only do they post their ad, but then they can see what it looks like, uh, in real life. And this is a Sein bird drone shot that was taking this winter, actually, you can tell it was winter.

Tim Rowe (00:33:09) - Shout out Sein bird, the

Eric Kubischta (00:33:11) - Point I'm trying to,

Tim Rowe (00:33:11) - Great reason to have sign. So then you can have really cool tools like this that Yep. Make your stuff look awesome.

Eric Kubischta (00:33:18) - Yep. So the point I'm trying to make is that this advertiser is changing all these creatives. The owner of this sign doesn't have to do any work. The owner of this sign sold the contract is getting the money and no longer has to do any work. Um,

Tim Rowe (00:33:32) - Which creates so much in as the customer, like the intrinsic value that having control over this creates. Now I can do, I mean, you just scrolled through, I don't know, a half dozen different creatives

Eric Kubischta (00:33:45) - And they may have some that aren't on there anymore, right? So,

Tim Rowe (00:33:47) - And, and ultimately me as the, the bar and restaurant owner, that's the, that's what I would lo if you sat down and asked me what would you love to do with your billboard? Uh, the answer would probably sound like, promote all the events I have going on here. So people come here and spend money mm-hmm. , um, and they're able to do this. So the, so the bar restaurant owner is controlling the billboard Yep. From an app on their phone.

Eric Kubischta (00:34:09) - Yep, exactly. You might be using his desktop. You can use your desktop too. Um,

Tim Rowe (00:34:14) - Nice flex there. We can, we can do desktop and we can do the mobile app.

Eric Kubischta (00:34:18) - This is, yeah, this is the desktop view you're looking at here.

Tim Rowe (00:34:20) - Um, and, and one of the things I liked about this too is like the, the analytics, and it's just like, it's proof of play in real time, not in real time. Yeah. 28 days later in a 17 page PDF report, exactly's the last, um, so you know, if it's up, if it's down. Yep. Are you able to set parameters? Like can I, can I daypart different creatives? Are there, are there things like that? Yeah, you

Eric Kubischta (00:34:45) - Can control, like, uh, you can control the dates and, and times of these creatives. So, um, I won't do it on this live one, but, um, when you're in here, there is an ability to sort of set some of those parameters. Yep. Like, you might want this created to stop, you know, at the end of the week. So mm-hmm. , in fact, he did, he has this scheduled to stop at 9:00 PM on February 12th.

Tim Rowe (00:35:04) - He sure does.

Eric Kubischta (00:35:06) - And he didn't have to call his rep or the scheduling person at the company to say, can you run this ad and then stop it at 12:00 PM Right.

Tim Rowe (00:35:15) - And this type of control is really, you know, it's, it's funny, right? Because it gets floated around in different conversations, you know, outta home is like buying Facebook ads. This is the most similar to buying Facebook ads that I've seen in a technological application for out of home, because that's, that's what it is, right? Like the, it's it's the ability to control different creatives and to turn them on and turn them off. Uh, targeting, you know, has mostly achieved parody, uh, you know, across the industry, whether you're a Geo Path member or you're using some sort of planning tool and mm-hmm. , right? Like, but this is real control. This is definitely interesting. So how does this tie into Lucid xr? You mentioned it there for a second, but Lucid XR is, is a brand new thing and it's like free and I can use it. Like, I, you sent me that one with the podcast on there. It's

Eric Kubischta (00:36:12) - Yeah. My, my computer's being really slow. I think the software, I'll tell you something about the software that you're using for this podcast. It might

Tim Rowe (00:36:18) - Slow down. Is it slowing you down

Eric Kubischta (00:36:19) - A little bit? But anyway, you can cut that. Oh

Tim Rowe (00:36:21) - Man,

Eric Kubischta (00:36:21) - That's ok. Um, so my computer's slow,

Tim Rowe (00:36:24) - He thinks I know how to edit stuff ,

Eric Kubischta (00:36:26) - So, okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you two examples of, of Lucid, uh, XR here. So, um, I'm gonna open up, let's see here, um, would be the easiest way. I'm gonna show you what it looks like if you just have never signed in to lose it before regard an account. Um, we're gonna go and chat. Ok. Uh, let's say that you wanna see what your're at is gonna look like on a screen, and I'm gonna pick one and we'll see how it looks. So, uh, we have, and,

Tim Rowe (00:36:53) - And these are real billboards.

Eric Kubischta (00:36:56) - Yep. Lemme bring, I'm actually gonna go to, uh, this lucid XR map, which gives me a nice little, like, little how too, but let me, uh, skip by this. Here we go. So, uh, let me, what, where do you live?

Tim Rowe (00:37:19) - I live in Hackettstown, New Jersey. Um, we don't have too many digital billboards out this way, but

Eric Kubischta (00:37:25) - Let see what's nearby here. Alright, so we'll come in here and let's just pick one. Let's see, what's this guy here? Yeah. So here, here's a billboard. Um, so, so I clicked, so, so I clicked on that board, if I can click on a different one. And, and what you're seeing here in this case is a Google Street view image of this billboard. So this is what it looks like from Google Street View. Um, so let's say I wanna see what my ad's gonna look like on that, on that billboard. I just click create proof. It tells me the size. Uh, I'm gonna choose, uh, an ad. I'm just gonna choose. Um, let's see here. How about, here's, I'm just gonna choose this logo, so I'm just gonna put like this, this little image. So we see, you see we, we give this cropper here, right? Mm-hmm. . So I'm gonna crop this kinda like this. We'll make it look and then we're just gonna see what that looks like. I'm gonna say you might as spell that. So as far as steps goes, that's it. You click on the billboard, you click,

Tim Rowe (00:38:35) - So the step is upload your creative.

Eric Kubischta (00:38:38) - Yep, that's it. And now it's there.

Tim Rowe (00:38:40) - So that's pretty cool. Yep. So that, that's pretty cool.

Eric Kubischta (00:38:43) - Yeah. So that's one random billboard. Um, now let's look at it, um, in, in a much nicer looking format. I'm gonna show you, uh, let me see here. Once I'm gonna show, I'll just, I'll use Bismark again because I know, I know we have a shot. We have a bunch of sign bird images in here for a bunch of different, uh, vendors. Nice. That I can get to the Bismarck one fastest. So we'll go  know where that, I know where that sign is. Um, so I'm gonna tap on this one. Um, oh, that's a demo board. Let's get to the one behind there. I'll just use it. That's fine. I just have to set it as a demo. I'm gonna put that same creative on here and then we'll see what it kind of looks like as a side bird shot. And you can see how much, how much nicer that looks awesome. Yeah, how much nicer that looks.

Tim Rowe (00:39:43) - So, so if I'm a media owner, if I'm a seller and my inventory's on here. Who, who's, who's on there? Some, there's some bigger, quite a few Yeah. Companies on there, right?

Eric Kubischta (00:39:52) - Quite a few. I dunno how many operators are on there. There's, I think we have about four or 5,000 billboards altogether. Wow.

Tim Rowe (00:39:57) - Okay. So either way, there's a great opportunity to mock up creative on actual inventory. So that's, that is applications for everyone. We'll link to that, right? That's a public url. Anyone can go there and do that. Yep.

Eric Kubischta (00:40:11) - And so that's cool. You can do one board at a time that way. So we have this free version where you can just choose a board and you can choose a screen, you can create an ad on it. But the really cool stuff comes, um, and, and some of this is designed for agencies and account execs that work it out of home companies. So I'm gonna proof up something on, uh, some Durden billboards. So Durden's a company down in southeast Alabama. Um, uh, they're a great company. I'm gonna create a new account. I'm gonna call it shout

Tim Rowe (00:40:37) - Out to the Durden. Yes. Out of Home Museum. The Netflix show coming soon.

Eric Kubischta (00:40:43) - What's that? There's

Tim Rowe (00:40:45) - A museum. Bill Durin has got an incredible collection of old signage. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I just think that it should be in Netflix show.

Eric Kubischta (00:40:54) - Oh, I'm gonna have to ask him about it.

Tim Rowe (00:40:56) - I'm gonna have to ask, I'm gonna have to get him on the podcast about, he's gonna have to film it from live inside the, uh, exhibition hall.

Eric Kubischta (00:41:04) - Um, so, so anyway, uh, I chose, you know, I hit ad proof. I typed your name in there. We're gonna create an account. Um, and it's gonna give all this is dirt's inventory here.

Tim Rowe (00:41:14) - Okay.

Eric Kubischta (00:41:14) - So I'm just gonna, let's say I'm gonna proof up. I don't know, we'll just, we'll just pick some, we're gonna see how this looks. I'm gonna choose a bunch of them.

Tim Rowe (00:41:23) - So this is a feature for me as a media owner, now

Eric Kubischta (00:41:27) - Media owner or an ad agency that's then said we have sort of a forthcoming agency product that's gonna sort of help with this for ad agencies too. Um, but in

Tim Rowe (00:41:36) - Interested in hearing about that too.

Eric Kubischta (00:41:38) - Yep. Um, so now I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna choose a, a creative, let's see if I got something. I don't have all the good demo stuff. Let me go see. Gina always does the demos, so I'm always like behind on everything. So let me find, uh, sales or is it, or is it demo? Oh, demo accounts. Uh, how about post line auto? I just wanna create, I can put on there and we'll just see how this looks. Um, so here's a creative, it's .

Tim Rowe (00:42:06) - What we're doing right now is, is you've gone through Durden's inventory, you selected multiple billboards. Mm-hmm. , you're now uploading just one creative and you're, and

Eric Kubischta (00:42:17) - We'll see how it looks. Yep.

Tim Rowe (00:42:18) - Alright. Alright. We're gonna, hopefully, we're gonna have mockups here for multiple billboards in one click of the button.

Eric Kubischta (00:42:27) - Yeah, we will. We'll, we'll see what happens. So, so now I think one thing that we all know about out of home is that, uh, sizing is a really big issue. You have, uh, lots of different sizes. Lots of different ratios. Um, so I chose a random set of sizes. So we're gonna probably, we're gonna see what happens with those random, random set of sizes. So far it's a

Tim Rowe (00:42:47) - Disclaimer

Eric Kubischta (00:42:47) - So far. It doesn't look bad. Look

Tim Rowe (00:42:49) - At that. Looks good so far.

Eric Kubischta (00:42:51) - Yep. So you can see that on all these different, now on some of 'em, it's, it's a little squished in mm-hmm. , but for the purposes of doing a quick demo for a client mm-hmm. , you could just scoop the logo and put it on the billboard and say, Hey, this is what it's gonna look like. And look at that. Sure. So we just poof this up. So now this, now we, I made this page and now, uh, I'll hit share and I'm gonna copy that link and I'm gonna, I'll email it to you. Uh,

Tim Rowe (00:43:18) - So now you're taking that, that mock up experience and me, the client, you're going to just send that over and I can look at my mocked up creative on all of your inventory

Eric Kubischta (00:43:31) - And I might come down here and I might say something like, Tim, we chose these locations because they are right by your, um, so now I can add some additional info to this proof custom kind of for, for this specific customer. If I wanna, um, the cool thing is, is, is now that customer, they can look at it, they can approve it, whatever they want. The cool thing is, is now, um, when I come in here, this campaign and this account is now already set up and lose it mm-hmm. . So let's say that that customer says, yep. I, I I I approved. I love it. I, I wanna go. Um, so then all, all I have to do is number one, I can click here to Link Player and now I can link my, in this case Journey uses Blip Player. I can now link the player up to this campaign and it'll start serving these creatives to that player. So, and then let's go, I'm gonna come in here and say, okay, so I made that proof up for Tim, so I'm gonna invite him. Is it Tim? What's your email address?

Tim Rowe (00:44:40) - T Row. Now I'm gonna get all sorts of emails.

Eric Kubischta (00:44:44) - T Row is it o d n?

Tim Rowe (00:44:49) - It is.

Eric Kubischta (00:44:51) - It's, oh, no. Oh, sorry Tim.

Tim Rowe (00:44:53) - It's okay. If you email me, you just have to, you have to reference the podcast and tell me that you shared it with one other person, .

Eric Kubischta (00:45:03) - So now I'm gonna make you a user of this account. Um, and what'll happen is you're gonna get an invite and, and, and you can then log in and now you can start adding your own creatives because now I've just given you access to control your own creatives and now everything's, everything's.

Tim Rowe (00:45:17) - So now I can, my marketing director has it, the cr you know, graphics designer has access to it. So I,

Eric Kubischta (00:45:26) - Yeah.

Tim Rowe (00:45:26) - It's, it's done. It's off my plate. I'm not having to do this, this personally. Right,

Eric Kubischta (00:45:31) - Right.

Tim Rowe (00:45:32) - I continue to just believe in Lucid as a company and this technology because these are the barriers. These, these are the things that advertisers wanna do. These are the things that brands wanna do. Um, and, and you're solving that. And, and I think that that's important work.

Eric Kubischta (00:45:47) - We're, we're trying to, um, and if you think of what we just did there, we really created, in just a couple of minutes, we created a, a campaign. We created a system, uh, that your clients can log into. They can get their analytics, your scheduling guy per Galler guy or gal can schedule that campaign. You don't have to get your uh, uh, graphic designer involved if you don't want to. I mean, a lot of stuff is happening with just a few simple steps. Um, and, and we think it's cool. So

Tim Rowe (00:46:14) - I agree. I think it's cool.

Eric Kubischta (00:46:16) - Beyond Lucid xr, we just think Lucid XR is a tool we built to help. The reason we built Lucid XR is so your advertisers, when they're using Lucid can see what their adss gonna look like. And we think that that's really, really important.

Tim Rowe (00:46:30) - They can see it. It's real. Yeah.

Eric Kubischta (00:46:32) - Let, let's see that, let's see that you're, you're, you're an agency and you're buying ads and you live in like, you know, Milwaukee and you're buying ads for a customer in, in Chicago. Don't you wanna know what that billboard looks like? Yeah, you do. Yeah. And so does your client, they wanna know what these things are gonna look like. Um, and not just the billboard, not just like a picture of the billboard with somebody else's ad on it. No. You, you wanna see what your ad's gonna look like. And the reason why that's so important is because most people cannot visualize what their content is gonna look like somewhere else. Like if you said, look at that billboard, imagine what your logo would look like on there, or your ad. Most people can't do it. They're like, oh yeah, I bet it would be, it would be really, really cool. But they really truly,

Tim Rowe (00:47:16) - They can feel it, but they can't see it.

Eric Kubischta (00:47:18) - Exactly. So if in two seconds you can just create a quick proof with all the screens on it and show it to them, why wouldn't you do that? And in fact, you think that that would help you sell that ad. If it's gonna help you sell the ad, it's gonna help you make

Tim Rowe (00:47:31) - More guaranteed to sell more ads,

Eric Kubischta (00:47:33) - You'll sell

Tim Rowe (00:47:34) - More. Shane Hutton Tasty ad said it. He said, spec art sells more ads. And you know what, I think live mockups, it's the same category. It's the same thing. Like put it, put it in front of people. Yeah.

Eric Kubischta (00:47:46) - And if you think about why spec art, there's a lot of companies that don't do spec art. And do you know why that is? It's because it's a pain in the butt. So why are you having your graphic designers do all this spec art? Just take their logo, put it on a white background in Canva and put it on a billboard that'll get you a far enough. Um, and, and, and now the customer can visualize their logo and you know, on, on the billboard itself. Then you can work on creative, but you sell 'em the location, sell 'em the idea, the idea of their logo being on that billboard. Show 'em what that looks like. Then you can make a mark. Um, you don't have to involve, you don't need the graphic design department just put their logo on a billboard that that's 10 times better than saying, imagine what your logo might look like on a billboard. You know, just

Tim Rowe (00:48:28) - Put their logo on a billboard.

Eric Kubischta (00:48:31) - Spec art. I art,

Tim Rowe (00:48:32) - That's the key takeaway.

Eric Kubischta (00:48:33) - You're buying, you know, you're selling real things. You're selling these real billboards. Don't sort of make people imagine them because if you're making, you're losing customers by trying to hope that they're gonna imagine what they're trying to buy. If you were gonna buy a couch, would you buy it? Would you imagine it? And then be like, yeah, I think I'm gonna buy this thing that you're describing to me. Oh,

Tim Rowe (00:48:54) - I sat on it. I put my feet up on the ottoman. Yeah, yeah,

Eric Kubischta (00:48:58) - Yeah. It's a, it's a brown couch. You should buy it. It's brown. It's brown and it's, and it's six feet long. Okay, perfect. I'll buy that couch. No,

Tim Rowe (00:49:06) - You won't. I used to sell cars. I used to sell cars and, and, and there was a, a saying I picked up from an old timer. He said, the feel of the wheel is half the deal. Yeah. And whatever that application is to, to, to add a home, it's something like spec art is something like live mockups. It's, it's

Eric Kubischta (00:49:23) - That I didn't buy a car once though without driving it. So I, I wrecked it. I had a car. I wrecked it. It's, it's, it's, it, it's like this car. There's not a lot of these cars. So I wrecked this car and, uh, um, I really wanted another one of the exact same car, exact same year, and I wanted the exact same color and there was only like seven of these cars for sale in the country. So, uh, I found the one, it was a different color. It was white instead of black. I called the rep, the, the, the guy at the automotive dealership. I asked him like four or five questions and I'm like, okay, I'll take that car. And he is like, wait, what? Don't short drive. I'm like, this is the easiest sale you ever made.

Tim Rowe (00:50:01) - What kind of car was it? You can't keep us. What, what was it?

Eric Kubischta (00:50:04) - Uh, it was uh, uh, a Mercedes, uh, AMG C formula.

Tim Rowe (00:50:08) - Very cool. Very cool.

Eric Kubischta (00:50:09) - So pretty hot car,

Tim Rowe (00:50:10) - But that's a hot car. Yeah. Good for you Eric. Where can folks get in touch with you? How do they learn more about Lucid? Give them the Latin Long.

Eric Kubischta (00:50:19) - Um, just go. If you Google lucid lt, people think it's d sometimes, which maybe kinda difficult. But L u ct, it's Lucid. Um, Google that. You'll find our website, you'll find our, you'll find our app and uh, uh, you can sort of read all about it there and we're all about it there.

Tim Rowe (00:50:36) - Yeah, and we'll link it in the, in the show notes below. It's been a ton of fun. We, uh, we covered a lot of ground and I'm, I'm, I'm glad that we were able to get this all in one place, in one conversation and keep pushing. Great product. Look forward to, uh, look forward to catching up next time.

Eric Kubischta (00:50:52) - Yeah. Thanks Tim.

Tim Rowe (00:50:54) - Awesome. Thanks Eric. Bye. If you found this episode to be helpful, please share it with somebody who could benefit. As always, make Sure's smashed at subscribe button wherever you're watching or listening, and we'll see y'all next time.

Eric Kubischta (00:51:07) - Quarter century. I finally came to my senses. I finally got my real tinted possibilities endless. All the way. Tokyo, take a trip down South Mexico. Next stop showing how the world class trade show first class all the way. Cause that's how we roll. Yeah. Call us the rockstar business, man. Rock shows we handle business, man. We got our own future in the palm of our hands divided. We fall in together. We stand.