OOH Insider - Episode 021 - Brian Rappaport, Founder of Quan Media Group

Welcome to the at-home insider show, where we are the loudest voice in out-of-home bringing you tips, tricks, insider insights. And that is what today is all about insider insights. I'm joined by Brian wrap-up for somebody that you've known around the industry for awhile, he's set up his own shop, quantum media group in New York, where he joins us live from today.

Brian, thanks so much for being on the show. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This is a nice bit of. Definitely is, it's been a crazy week. The world's a changing place and we set this up about two weeks ago and it was a, it was a different time. Then we were going to do this in person in New York city.

But it's a different time now to understand where we are today though. I think it's good to sort of reflect on where we came from you. You're a staple in the out-of-home space, but tell us a little bit about your origin story. How did you get to where you are today with. Yeah. Um, I mean, it's kind of funny.

I found this industry completely by accident. One of my best friends was working at Zenith media back in 2007. I needed a full-time job after finishing up a quick little project job at the national basketball association. I applied for a junior print negotiator job. I ended up getting it, uh, really fell in love with the agency space, worked in print for awhile.

Um, and as Dennis grew and continued to win some really great clients, um, heading into the 2010s, they kind of shifted me over to the out-of-home space. And that's really where I found a deep found passion for this media channel. I started working on Sonic drive-through and then Delta and Verizon, and some really incredible brands.

And as Zenith kind of transformed as an agency, I started doing a little bit less out of home, and that's where I realized that I wanted to spend a hundred percent of my time. Uh, and that fortunately coincided with the rise of rapport, which is the out-of-home buying home for Interpublic group. And, you know, like I say, right place, right time reporting needed an associate media director.

It was the right move in my career for sort of a. And I stepped into rapport just as they started handling the out-of-home buying for media Mollen low and hill holiday. And it was amazing. I basically walked into an agency that weighs, I don't know. I tried to find a good analogy, like a sports team that has like all of these young players.

And then over the next five years, like, You know, splits to win their division wins championship championship. Like my four and a half years that I spent that rapport were insane. Um, we have phenomenal leadership and on top of that, we just were incredible in terms of morale in the office, um, winning new business, um, and just kind of, I think setting the standard for what an agency should be, you know?

Yes, we were a holding company agency, but at the same time, Um, we didn't operate like that. We kind of operated like a small shop, um, and we're so tight knit and very familial and how we operated that it really lends itself to, um, you know, kind of the overall gist of the office. Nobody left nobody switched agencies.

We had such a nice thing, how we're there and, and it was just probably the four and a half best years of my entire career. Um, you know, what ultimately led me to Kwan is that in 2015, about four or five months into my time, or before I saw Casper. Did he subway system and really wondered, you know, who was sitting there out of home, you know, at this point, when you're in the agency world for awhile, you know what agency has HBO, you know, what agency has Verizon, you know, who has, who, but I didn't know who at Casper and found that they were basically buying around a home directly, reached out to the fender, Philip Krim, uh, got a meeting within a week and sat in a room with him and basically said, this is what I do.

And this is why you should work with me. Let us help you scale. You know, you're, you're out of home. And literally the next day he emailed me and said, I really liked meeting with you. I want to work with you. What are the next steps? And that was such a good feeling. It was like, wow, I really like to win. Um, and it just business, I think I couldn't do that at Zenith because Dennis was a massive full service agency, whereas before was just out of home.

So it was a little bit easier to kind of bring clients in and it wasn't like a whole, you know, agency business pitch. Um, so I brought in Casper and after that, it just. You know, it became a deep found love for working with brands. One-on-one, you know, I was overseeing some of the best agencies in the country from an out of home standpoint, you know, as my quote unquote day job.

But after Casper came, you know, things and then third love and daily harvest and Roman and Quip and Billy and luminary, and it just. Building where it got to the point where people were emailing me, Hey, I got your name, you know, from so-and-so they said that you helped them with their, at home strategy.

We're looking at one shot of home. You don't know what to do or how to buy a Chicago or how to buy Boston. Um, and it, it, you know, four and a half years in, I just kind of realized like, Hey, there is no shop out there that, that really caters to this growing sector. Like there were some, um, smaller shops that like, yes, have some DTC clients, but there's not one real shop.

That's. We know how to grow a DTC brand from a 50 K budget to when they have an a million dollar budget to when they have a $5 million budget. We know, you know, there's no one shot that teaches them what markets are best for them based on what consumers are trying to reach based on how their sales are performing.

And that was my, you know, real. True. Like, I guess, I don't know, deep rooted passion in finding Kwan. I wanted to open up a shop where we could deliver a personalized approach to buying a planning out of home for CMOs directors of growth directors of acquisition who had no real knowledge of the industry.

Um, and want to kind of learn. And do you find that there is that big education gap specifically on out of home? I know you take a really data-driven that bespoke approach that anyone can spend $5 million in a market intelligently spend 50 grand because you know that the next 50 depends on this 50 making two 50 to do that.

Right. Is it the education gap? Is it access to the education? It is a lack of education. That is my biggest hurdle. That's the biggest challenge. Yeah. So out of home is when the bulletins, right. Or can you find your city? Can you buy the subway? Um, you know, do you guys buy double Decker buses? Like, it's just questions like that when people don't understand how vast the out of home landscape is.

And when I start to have conversations with clients and I explained to them, like, do you want to do a 3d projection on top of a painted wall in the middle of Williamsburg? And they're like, oh my God, you can do that. I'm like, yeah, we can do that out of home is so much more than a bill of Bolton on the side of the.

And I mean, don't get me wrong. There's still gonna be clients that just simply want to buy like that. And we're here for that at the same time. But for me, it's the most fun when I educate, you know, a client on what really the at home landscape is. And then they start doing some of the fun stuff. Okay, because that's really what advertising is, right?

It's equal parts science and equal parts art. And it's being able to do a 3d projection on a painted surface in Williamsburg. And they go, I didn't even know you could do that. Well, I didn't know that. Do. You know this with a painting. Do you, do you look at, do you look at the format as sort of your canvas in how you approach it?

I'm a creative person. That's just who I am. I've always been that way. I really think outside the box, I'm wild and I'm black. The, and you know, for me, it's not, it's never been our job or you know, where I've been, whether it's Senator for wow. You know, to, to come up with creative concepts for clients, but when clients let you do that, that's where you really get to shine and show that you're a true partner.

And I think for me, that really was in the forefront and report because a lot of the agencies that we've worked with, there were true partners to us and like, look to us to be the out of home expert. Like they were like, what can we do in this market for this client? And, you know, we would sit at rapport, our whole office, regardless of what account we worked on and brainstorm to try and come up with some really good.

First to market concepts. And, you know, I think some of the coolest stuff that's been done in the last five years and out of home, I've come out of report. And that's not me being biased because that's where I worked. I mean, we don't have enough time, but if you did your Googling and you to research. You know, the experiential and non-traditional world about a poem has heavily been penetrated by reform the last five years.

And that's kind of, you know, where the most fun in working in this industry sort of stems from, yeah, really at any time, I'd say maybe one in three out of the activations that you see get picked up and people talking about hazard report tied to it in some, and you described it right. You described the culture.

It, it, it fostered that and really promoted that. And you were exchanging ideas across accounts. And how, how much of a miss do you feel like that's commonplace in the out-of-home agency world? Do you think that that's maybe one of the biggest opportunities for brands to get better? I think brainstorming and utilizing, you know, your, your coworkers and your peers is the best way to really help, you know, your client.

And unfortunately it's an agency grows and gets bigger. There's going to be less than that. But I mean, I was working at an agency with eight to 10 people and, you know, it was very easy for everyone to turn their chairs around and devote 20 minutes to, to kind of brainstorming for a given client. I think that like everyone brings their own ideas and experience to the table.

And I think every agency that's out there, you know, has such good talent and good experience with. I think that's a big miss for some people is don't be afraid to talk to your coworker and ask them, you know, how would you approach this? That coworker may be working on a completely different piece of business, but if they're a true peer, they're going to give you the time of day and try and help you, you know, with what you're looking to accomplish for your client.

And that could really bring so much benefit to it. I see the world through one lens and you see it through a different lens. And maybe there's something that I'm doing. Something that I love that you do is, is using the capabilities behind. Behind digital and specifically the weather trigger that you're doing, uh, with Roman or Elvin row.

Um, so, you know, we, we use, in fact, we just used, um, a dynamic script to help take workload off of the creative team. I had a client wanted to do a bunch of thank you's and a bunch of different formats on digital. I said, rather than you. For designs for 46 different creatives. That's just going to be, why don't we just use a dynamic script on and be done with it.

And the creative department was, was over the moon. So, you know, you're using the dynamic. What percentage do you see of campaigns? If M there's probably no, no correct number by. Is that a, is that an opportunity for brands to have more fun with the format? Yeah, I think that brands need to start to utilize.

Look, I think the digital out of home is such an important part of our industry. And obviously that's leading to the growth of out of home year. But I think that like when you were talking about a top five DMA that really has multiple digital formats, like a brand should really be thinking through the lens of what can I do.

That is going to make this campaign, you know, further, further amplified. Look, if you're running digital billboards in Charlotte, there's only so much you can do there. And it's no offense. I mean, you could do day parts and what the triggers and I get it. But if you're in a market like a New York or even a Boston now, you know, or a Chicago, like you can really be creative with what you're looking to accomplish through digital.

And you're talking really about transcending, just what we think about as digital billboards on the side of the road, it's screens at malls, it's the back of a taxi. It's all of these different places that you can be. Is that, is that what you're alluding to? Definitely. I mean, I think, you know, I think it's kind of exciting every time there's a new digital format and out of home introduced, it's kind of like, you know, what can I use this for?

I think, you know, play Atticus is a good example. They came into the space near these fun screens in the back of Archer vehicles that are for trivia and, you know, that offer all of these other different. Platforms and like, as they're scaling, you know, at first, when I met with the guys that didn't really see a lot of them, but now, like I got into a car in Florida last week and I have a 30 minute ride to west Palm beach and I'm literally playing trivia and I'm having so much fun, but at the same time, you know, the attribution side of what they offer up is pretty amazing.

And they're able to sort of measure a one-to-one connection. And, you know, I think that like the more out of home or digital out of home assets, you know, come out, there's going to be that component of, you know, attribution and measurement. That's going to. Make it truly a better plus for the industry and for agencies and clients.

And where does data and audience insight, where does, where does that come into your process? Is it on the planning side is on the measurement side and the backend, is it all the way through? It's usually on the planning side. I mean, you know, in the beginning, the way that, that I personally plan, and I think that no matter how big con.

Uh, however many years down the road, I'm always going to be involved in building plans. I just love it. I don't care. It's one of my favorite things to do. Um, I like to think audience for us when I'm building out a plan, like where is this target audience for this brand? And just why it's such a plus when a brand takes the time to give you a proper brief, like here's the core audience here are their habits, their second graphic.

Wherever they may be during the day what they do for hobbies, because you know, with what we have now in the audience measurement side, or at least the audience analytical side, there's a real firm way to plan at home. So strategically that you are actually in front of the audience, that a brand is trying to reach.

And, you know, I, I am the biggest lover of brand awareness campaigns, because if someone's going to give me a million dollars and say, we're looking to do brand awareness in New York city, you know, I'm going to have a blast. There's so much you do, but unfortunately, That's not happening all the time. And you know, 75% of the time there are KPIs tied to an out of home plan there, you know, you need to hit a certain cap if you're a see clients.

And that's where thinking audience first sort of comes into play. I'm so glad that you touched on a customer acquisition costs because. That, especially now in a climate where efficiency is so paramount. If I can acquire customers for less than you, then I can outspend you and I can put you out. What should a brand be looking at right now, considering where we are today in 2020 is now a time to pull back is now a time to double down is now a time just to be smarter.

I think it's just a time to be smarter. Like put, you know, what's going on in the world right now, aside because God willing to close those open 46 weeks. And like, now's the time to be smarter with your spend. Like you, you don't need to spend a million dollars in, out of home to be successful in a top five DMS.

But like, you can't really get away with it with just 25 K. Having said that, like, that's our, you know, one of our expertise, I guess you could say, like, I could find a way to utilize 25 K in any given market, you know, and I'll do my best to make sure it's spent the most to teach plea. But like, if you have two, 200 K and you look at it, spend it in New York, we could be super smart, super effective, and really.

Help you bring in the consumers, you're looking to reach. So, right. So that matters. So for anybody listening to this, it sometimes it's the fear of the unknown. I'm not going to have, I don't have the budget. I can't even play in that, in that arena. But what you're saying is that really that we can work with different budget types, still put together a campaign that works that's based on real data and audience insight.

So would you say, do you, if somebody has a budget that's maybe less than that, 25,000, do you start to then look at secondary markets or do you say come back when you have more, do you try to do it's really a conversation and I pride myself and what we do over here on. I will tell a client if they should bank those dollars, rather than spend them in out of home and then not see a result.

I think it's important. And you know, that's, what's ultimately going to build client trust because maybe right now they just don't have it. They don't have the money to spend it on the home and then accuracy of results. But in six months when they're, you know, Or unicorn or whatever the case is, they're going to come back and be like, you know what?

We just got another round of funding and marketing is you trust. And we have a good three 50 to 400 to spend it out of home and we're ready to go big now. Um, I think what makes us different is that it, I'm sorry. People could deny it, but like you can't go to a Laura's agency as a new client and ask, you know, tell them you want to spend 50 K they're either going to turn you away or that they're going to tell you that you can't spend it.

Um, you know, I think that my competitors and myself in this space. That's kind of what makes us stand out a little bit and maybe even some of the other competitors out there w will not bother with that. I will work with any budget. Want to try and find a way to make it work as for client. And if it can't, then I'll just tell them.

And that's something important. We've talked about a little bit before, you know, the show here that we live in a world of abundance, right? There's enough for all of us to be successful. So there's no reason to, to turn somebody away, maybe, um, just because of budget, but being able to make a good recommendation says, Hey, Brian, you know what?

I really want to work with you, but I couldn't do the best job for you right now. So why don't you wait? And then when you do come back, you know, you've got to trust the partner because these relationships are going to grow from 50,000 to 5 million. There's a lot it's, this is a long road and it can make that first dollar.

You have to play the long game because there's so many clients that I've worked with were literally put together five to 10 different approaches and there, and I keep thinking they're going to buy. And they're like, now it's not the right time, or we're not ready. And they disappear. And I forget about them.

And all of a sudden, six months later, they're back. We want to see one other approach and then they sign off from the bind, like now's the right time for us. And that's why, like, you just, it's all about client service. It's such a cliche thing, but it really, it really is about clients. There it's so important.

I just listened to a book called a Aspies guide to strategy. It was written by this former CIA case officer and he talks a lot about starting with the other person's. So he was talking about working intelligence assets, but it's really so much of what we do, right? What's what's your end game, right? Your end game might be different than mine, and it might be different than client a and it's different than client B.

And if we can keep in scope, what somebody is end game is what is the thing they're trying to accomplish right now and how we fit into that? Because I feel like so often we were thinking I got to sell space right now. I need, I need to campaign right. But that might not be your, your end game. Maybe it's just getting that introductory introductory information or exploring what out-of-home looks like.

So I really appreciate that you take that approach, um, on the attribution side, as we start, there's so much conversation about attribution right now, what do you, what, what's the right way to approach attribution for out-of-home? I think it's sitting, it's sitting with a client and saying, what do you want to get out of this?

Are you looking to measure, drive to site? Are you looking too much foot traffic into a brick and mortar location? Or are you looking for simply awareness? Like who knew about my brand before this out of home campaign that will knows about it after and how do they know about it? I think there are enough solves now on the attribution side and out-of-home and enough really good partners where you have to have the conversation.

Don't just go to the table and say, oh, you know, we could be targeted or we could do it. Um, it's really asking the client, like, what are you looking to get out of this campaign? And if it's, you know, Simply awareness and like somebody that, how would you, how do you approach w uh, measuring awareness and I, Hey, Brian, want to do an awareness campaign and let's measure awareness.

How are you going to approach that? I mean, it's usually with like a testing control market. I mean, based on, on if you know where to watch you got it home. But I mean, we, we just did a big out of home by four for Bonzo, which is a chickpea pasta they'd never done out of home. Um, and it happens to be very good up in, I lost, I love Bond's price, um, up in Boston.

You know, basically get a stationed dominant largest in back bay and took over a bunch of brand trans and ran light boards with the whole system. And we used the test to control market, obviously Boston and then Philadelphia, where there was no out of home. We did a pre and post awareness study through mirrors.

And I mean, without getting into specifics, basically because of out of home essentially, or a direct correlation, The awareness level for bonds us spiked. As soon as we were finished with our plan, as, you know, as opposed to like two weeks before we launched our plan, this is like so much more into the host awareness research.

But, but like that was a simple awareness study and it was kind of awesome to see because you know, out front was a great partner. We had a really strong plan. I just knew from the beginning sometimes, you know, If you don't, you're not going to be apple or Facebook or Spotify, but like, you know, when you're not home plan is going to work, like I, you just know when people are going to understand the know about a brand after you run an out of home campaign.

And I just knew before moms like anyone that's up in bop, in Boston, his phone to know about this brand. And now we can, at least we have the actual results to conduct. And now you, you can, you can scale off that right now. You've got a proven, I've got a proven approach. I know it works. And now let's, where else do you want to do it?

Right. You know what? Maybe didn't work or what, wasn't the most effective tactic. You know, find markets that are very, and that's kind of how I've planned for D to C brands, you know, for the last five years, it's like, you know, for Casper was after they were done with New York, which they did by themselves.

I came in basically when they were done with New York, it was what markets are very similar to New York where we've seen success, where we can kind of mirror what we've done from an out of home standpoint and, and hopefully see success, you know, in that other market and started for them in San Francisco.

And we kind of did an identical approach to New York and this. But it was kind of funny because then after that we went to Chicago and we kind of took a different approach in Chicago and kind of stayed away from transit. I don't know what one, a little bit different than both Chicago and New York. And they didn't see real lift in Chicago, really different approach to Chicago years ago.

And it was like, yeah, it was, you know, I it's a much longer story and out of fairness to kick the Casper, I'm not going to jump into it. You know, we took a different approach in Chicago, New York and San Fran. We're definitely very happy transit. And also those markets are identical and Chicago is a pretty similar market also.

And, um, yeah, we took a different approach and they didn't really see results, whereas they did in, um, San Fran and New York. And funny enough, Boston later that year, we went to same approaches in New York and San Fran and Boston. They saw such nice results that they increased their out of home spend there.

And they were basically, I think at the time, maybe the only child running, or maybe it was in collaboration with direct mail, it was awhile ago. It's kind of interesting. And I mean, I think that's, you know, once you've conquered the top three or four markets that, that you've seen success, and then you can kind of start playing in those secondary markets where like you could shift the approach and kind of play around and see what works in terms of awareness.

I think it's really important. What you just touched on. There was not being afraid to try something and fail because that's what we do. Right. We were always testing. Creative formats measurement. We're always testing these things because the world's constantly evolving and how we can, how we can measure these types of things.

And one thing that you might've never tried before you try and it turns about it turns out to be the most effective thing. Do you, do you feel, do you, do you approach. Campaigns with that in mind from an AB test or we're going to test markets against markets. How do you think it's markets against markets?

I really hope that like a client that didn't see success in their first ever out of home campaign, it doesn't get turned off to out of home. I mean, it happens so freaking happens and in complete fairness because, you know, while I love the pride, you know what I do, I'm a clown. Does. You know, on, on successful campaigns, like we've worked with a client a few months ago that that did their first of home campaign in Atlanta.

They didn't have a massive budget and I'm like, this is a tough market to like penetrate, unless you have a really high budget because it's heavily driving. And even as some of the new March format, you know, out of home, you know, rolls out in downtown and by five points, it's still a tough market. That mass transit system isn't really used that much.

You know, the client spend somewhere in the 50 to 75 came range on, you know, we really tried to get refined. We used to pull data so on and so forth, but they didn't really see. Results as a result of the out of home campaign. And I don't know that first of all, it always stops because I'm like, I feel like I failed at my job, but at the same time, it's like, all right, well, at the same time you spent 50 K you didn't spend 500.

Let's just sit together and figure out maybe what other markets are detention moving forward and let's change things up. So the next go around, because if you're gonna get turned off, because you didn't see results from your first ever out of home campaign and be afraid. And like, I don't know what to tell you.

Like you can't, it's more of like a life lesson, like. Get upset when you fail the first time, you know, you try again, scared money, don't make money. That's right. Like doubling down a black sock, you know, that's it find the hot head. Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's the conversation that I'm having with advertisers right now is, is that, is that devil down conversations, an opportunity to own more attention for less money.

Right. We know that money is shifting in terms of, of areas of focus. So I think that that's a great point that you bring out globally. So Brian you're based in New York, but you've got campaigns all over the country. Uh, is there anywhere that you don't work? Are you mostly U S we are following national, uh, in that, you know, north America, that includes Canada, I've done buying and planning, Toronto and Vancouver.

We have international capabilities. So, you know, whether it's the UK. Spain, so on and so forth. Um, but I think what really, you know, what we pride ourselves on is, is market expertise, especially in north America, like, you know, when a client. Comes to us. And they're looking to do something in Miami, like, you know, where they should be, what units are great.

You know, what partners in the sales side are strongest there. Um, and we tried and help guide them and like, we want to host market rides and we want to educate clients on market nuances. And I think it's really important and like, look, I don't want to go ahead and, and, um, speak ill of competitors in this space who may have more automated approaches to buying and planning out of home.

Because I think that there's a niche that needs to be filled all over. But I am a firm believer in that that cannot be the end all be all for your out of home buying and planning needs, uh, that, that personalization in that experience and understanding the space is so important, um, for a client that I just personally don't feel the threat of, you know, full automation and maybe to a degree.

Yes. And I get it and it definitely helps, but you know, the best comparison for me is a kind of gone off on a tangent is. You know, I do my taxes through a CPA and there's turbo tax out there and I can go ahead and do it, but what's to say that in two years I got an email from IRS or a letter from there, arresting that I own an additional $5,000 because I accidentally forgot to file something or, you know, something was incorrect and I know what the CPA is going to be perfect.

And they maybe get paid a little bit, you know, of a, of a commission or whatever it is, but they burned it because they. Help me accomplish what I'm looking to accomplish and you see, you see that shit is happening, not just in our space, but sort of in the world in general. I want some human interaction.

It's great that I can buy things with one click on Amazon, but I prefer to have a conversation with Brian here. Then, you know, maybe just go into an automated platform, looking at, uh, you know, some photo sheets and all right. And people are going to claim turnaround time and say, oh, you know, I could do this and get it realized inventory.

All of that is like, look, I hate to promote myself like this, but like, if you really need something to 24 hours and we'll make it happen, we're, we're good. Um, you know, it's turnaround time and, and, and deliverables are never going to be compromised. Um, you know, at least on, on our end, that's kind of been number one from a client service, obviously, number one before.

Meeting deadlines and coming in before them has always been just how I've operated since I've been at Zenith. So, you know, that's kind of why it's still on, on people that I work with and how we're going to come to. It reminds me of, uh, my high school days, souping up cars and stuff. We had to say cheap, reliable, fast pick, too cheap.

It's not going to be reliable, reliable, and fast. Isn't going to be cheap and really the same with picking a partner for your advertising. Hey, I'd rather take the time and have a bespoke plan that I know is going to be executed seamlessly at every level. Just going quick and turning something around.

There's a lot of value to that. Brian, how can people get in touch with you? We've got listeners all over the world. I think we're up to 11 countries as far away as the Philippines. So, so that's why I asked the question of, uh, of where your footprint footprints, but what's the best way to get in touch with you?

I don't know. I want to jinx myself and, you know, open up Pandora's box, but I I'm known for, um, responding to emails within anywhere from. One to three minutes after getting them regardless of the day of the week or time of the day, unless I'm really out of pocket. So.

Um, brian@columbiagroup.com is fine. And we'll give you our generic info at Klein media group. Um, feel free to email me. I'm always open to helping people out, having a discussion about our industry. I love talking about out of home. Um, advice look obviously for your potential client. I love that. Um, again, it doesn't matter what budget, you know, Um, but whether, you know, you're looking to break into the industry, whether you're looking for agency advice, um, you know, the one feel, feel free to reach out.

Um, and I guess the one thing that I'll say is that I really do love doing what I do. And I think most of all, it's because of the industry that we're in and the camaraderie and ethic, it's kind of unique that it's a really tight knit niche part of, uh, media. And everyone seems to get along and have friends all over the place, you know, competing agencies on the sales side.

Um, and I think. That, that kind of has to stay that way because it's important, you know, to kind of keep that human element of camaraderie and getting along and all of that. I absolutely agree. I just, uh, just jumped on Jason Hansen's lunch meeting from rapid fire on zoom. And, uh, and we talked for 20, 25 minutes just about life and about what's going on and you and I are able to connect here today.

It really is a great community. It's a great industry to be a part of, you know, for perspective clients. One thing that I personally love about Brian's approach. Is the planning side and putting together a bespoke plan, uh, coming from the digital or the online marketing space and understanding how to put together an audience.

And then ultimately what's the right. Who do I want to talk to? Where do I want to talk to them? And, and how are we going to execute all. I love the approach that you deploy from a planning standpoint. So from a little fanboy here, I appreciate you leading the charge on that because there's so much opportunity to do such a better job for clients and out of home, uh, to prevent those, those bad first experiences that make it twice as hard to get somebody to come back and try it again.

So doing it right the first time is good for the industry. It's good for everybody. Everybody benefits. So Brian, we'll make sure to include your email in the show notes below. This has been a lot of fun. I hope that it has for you as well. Definitely. It has. Thanks for the time. Um, have a great weekend, stay safe and I, I appreciate it.